Come and join if you like Grid Trading

[pro]

Lets keep it real: this EA is a ticking time bomb....

[freddy]

Lets keep it real: this EA is a ticking time bomb....

 

 

 

Real or not Real (Demo!) that is the question.

 

All grid (especially with martingale type trading) are timing bombs, if and I precise "IF" they are unattended.

 

You cannot see that as individual trades, you take that as a whole, and with timing, % capital Stop Loss, pairs diversifications, withdrawals etc. I think that technique has a lot of potential.

 

That is why fx4-ever urges us to put that on demo first and to understand what you do before putting it on live accounts.

 

And of course, each one of us, is responsible for our own acts!

 

Thanks a lot fx4_ever to let us try your EA.

 

freddy

[savasava]

2010.10.15 13:39:14 iWin_(no restriction) EURUSD,M5: Trade error: 4051 - invalid function parameter value

2010.10.15 13:39:14 iWin_(no restriction) EURUSD,M5: invalid lots amount for OrderSend function

 

???

[fx4_ever]

2010.10.15 13:39:14 iWin_(no restriction) EURUSD,M5: Trade error: 4051 - invalid function parameter value

2010.10.15 13:39:14 iWin_(no restriction) EURUSD,M5: invalid lots amount for OrderSend function

 

???

 

I don't know what it means. It works for me for over 3 years on many different brokers.

What is your broker? Lot size is set to 0.01. Does your broker allow 0.01? Some brokers won't let you trade 0.01. example. Tadawul, lowest lot size is 0.05.

Also, this is hedging system, so brokers like IBFX won't allow same pair hedging.

[fx4_ever]

Freddy is right. I am not forcing anyone to try or use it.

If you think it is matter of time it brow your account, that is the reason enough not to use the EA. This thread is all about Grid trading and I assume everyone already aware of pros and cons of Grid Trading. I am only offer to share what I've been using and wish you all for the best. Nothing more, nothing less...

[cubicrey]

Hi,

 

It is all abt the matter of MM, may be fx4_ever could suggest the lot size based on the account size, for example using 0.01lot per trade for every 50,000 deposit. Using 1 std lot for only 1000 deposit with the martingale strategy? you (not u fx4_ever but the newbees) test it and tell us can work or not..

 

cheers

 

rey

[musketeer]

Hi fx4_ever,

Can you provide version that may set the lot size via extern vars? Because you know Alpari ru is best mt4 data(for backtesting). But there the minimum lot size is 0.1...

 

edit: I want only to get reliable back test - mean if I will start it with 5k acc, I will put in alpari ru tester acc of 50k, and will try with their min lot size of 0.1. And then (if) I get real - will divide all by 10 - mean 5k with 0.01 lot...

Edited October 15, 2010 by musketeer

[musketeer]

I post this EA on paid forum this morning as well as here. If you are member for the paid forum, you'll see some of the same (or similar post).. I apologize for the redundancy in advance. I will only post if information will benefit Grid traders here @ Indo-Invest.

 

This is Grid+Martingale+Hedge strategy in one and it runs as cycle. Which meaning, you'll have many open positions until the cycle close all when it hit profit. It is automatically done.

 

As for optimization, you need to change the Grid space and other available options to test it out. I ran sample back test on just 1 month. 1) with 10 pip grid space and 2) with 50 pip grid space. Most people thinks shorter grid space is dangerous, but it is all depend on how market moves and if it has momentum to carry the bull or bear. So, you can't just assume larger grid space is better.

 

Attached, there is 2 samples that I tested. First one is spacing at 10 pips and 2nd one is spacing at 50 pips.

If you used 10 pip spacing, your fox draw down is approx 1700.00. Let's say, you really feeling the pain while you have that draw down and you decided to cut the losses. You still ended up with profit of $1300.00. That's 26% net gain in 1 month. But, if you are ok with $1700.00 draw down and didn't cut the losses, then, your total net gain is $ $3000.00, which is 60%.

so, here, your risk/reward = 30%-60% (1:2)

 

To compare this to using 50 pip spacing,n (2nd picture below) your draw down is about same, approx $ 1500.00. But, if you feel the pain when you see $1500.00 and cut the losses, you ended up with negative(- $1000.00 )for the month. But, if you do not take the loss and let the trade finished its cycle, you'll ended up with 8.5% (approx $450.00 net)

So, here, your risk/reward = 30%- 8.5% (3:1)

 

Perhaps, the month that I tested just happened to be big difference. But, in order to optimized, you'll need to know how the certain pair moves and when is the good time to start/stop trading the Grid/Martingale/Hedging method. But, I hope you'll get the gist of what I am trying to show here.

 

 

Totally agree! There is no such thing like safer grid space - depends on pair, season, trend, fundamentals... and black swan ofcourse...

[hyperdimension]

Starting from 2008-02-26 with default settings using Alpari UK terminal and FXDD web data (http://global.fxdd.com/en/mt1m-data.html) the account stopped out prematurely.

 

Symbol: EURUSD

Time frame: M5

Leverage: 500

Stop out level: 20%

Start date: 2008-02-26

End date: 2008-03-06 (stopped out)

Initial deposit: 10000 USD

End equity: 302.99 USD

Edited October 15, 2010 by hyperdimension

[boleslav]

Hi and thanks again fx4_ever

 

Is here somebody able decompile it or can fx4_ever post mq4 file? Why first entry is 2:1 why not only one lot? It´s better for spread or not? When I 2lots buy and 1 lot sell that´s same as buy 1 lot or not? When it close jobs? I thing there will be good when any profit will be touched close all jobs. Can anybody tell me how it work?

 

Thanks!

[Edero]

Coming back to the first Ea,Gridzilla, I have been testing it and it makes good profit (on demo).The other good thing about it is that its placed pending orders are visually available and its easy to manage/tweek the grid according to real price action.However, the drawback is that in Auto mode it does not close first grid orders automatically(as touted by the makers) when the price moves outside and a new grid is formed following the gap and the Tmode orders,resultantly there is a large drawdown and one has to monitor this ea to manually close the dangling trades of the first grid.

One solution I have tried is to use bigger lot( 1 lot instead of 0.1 or 0.01) and kept the profit order modest 100$,but this is a dangerous risk reward strategy and requires deep pockets as well.

If the smart coders here who have already tweeked it can do so again ,especially auto closing of first grid when the next one is formed then this ea has a good potential particularly in post US period.

[musketeer]

Hi and thanks again fx4_ever

 

Is here somebody able decompile it or can fx4_ever post mq4 file? Why first entry is 2:1 why not only one lot? It´s better for spread or not? When I 2lots buy and 1 lot sell that´s same as buy 1 lot or not? When it close jobs? I thing there will be good when any profit will be touched close all jobs. Can anybody tell me how it work?

 

Thanks!

 

I am not able, but even if I can - I will not. It is generously shared and only the fx4_ever can give the source and permissions of modifying it!

[proprietario]

hi fx4_ever and thank's, I tried and and it sounds interesting. I wanted to know if you can change the initial batch.

 

To understand, if instead of starting with 0.01 and 0.02 would like to start with 0.1 and 0.2 which settings should I change?

 

Or changes can be made only with the mq4?

[freddy]

Hi:

 

As I promised, here is my EA. Please see note.txt included in the zip file before you email me please. Back test looks good, but real time trading is actually better perform. It is Grid/Martingale/Hedging in all in one. So, I tried to make strategy as profitable as possible without using the StopLoss. However, if you see a drawdown that is not comfortable, please use 'manual shutdown' function to close all open positions and start again. First loss is the best loss... System will start making that money back real fast, so don't worry about cutting the losses time to time. While there's no guarantee in any trading, especially this types of trading system like iWin, I am sharing this anyone who is interested in the system. So, trade at your own risk.

 

Enjoy it and many pips to you all!:))

 

 

 

Hi fx4_ever,

 

First I would like to renew my thanks. Your generosity is greatly appreciated.

 

You used your EA for the past three years, so your experience is invaluable.

What is your greatest drawdown 'not comfortable' which you had to face and for which you used the emergency procedure 'manual shutdown'.

(Drawdown as a percentage of capital employed)

And also, how often it happens on?

 

Best regards

freddy

 

P.S. Oh!, I forgot to tell: I put it on demo since last night, and it won already around 7%! :)

Edited October 15, 2010 by freddy
P.S.

[fx4_ever]

Hi,

 

It is all abt the matter of MM, may be fx4_ever could suggest the lot size based on the account size, for example using 0.01lot per trade for every 50,000 deposit. Using 1 std lot for only 1000 deposit with the martingale strategy? you (not u fx4_ever but the newbees) test it and tell us can work or not..

 

cheers

 

rey

It explained in the text document. Always start with 0.01 and add the currencies as balance grows.

 

Hi fx4_ever,

Can you provide version that may set the lot size via extern vars? Because you know Alpari ru is best mt4 data(for backtesting). But there the minimum lot size is 0.1...

 

edit: I want only to get reliable back test - mean if I will start it with 5k acc, I will put in alpari ru tester acc of 50k, and will try with their min lot size of 0.1. And then (if) I get real - will divide all by 10 - mean 5k with 0.01 lot...

 

It has a lot more options than what I made it available, but simply, I don't want to be a teacher here. If I made every options that are available in the EA, I'll have to come up with details documents as how it is, should, used for trading . Remeber.. this is for my own use and it wasn't intended for commercial distribution. So, I didn't need to make out the supporting document. That is the reason that I disabled many options.

musketeer, Please check your PM. Thanks,

 

Totally agree! There is no such thing like safer grid space - depends on pair, season, trend, fundamentals... and black swan ofcourse...

Exactly.. It's strategy and not a fool proof. The strategy that works for me and hope it will work for some of you. But, it will not work if it is running unattended 24/7 UNLESS You have a large fund in your trading account. I hope someone here does... :)

 

Starting from 2008-02-26 with default settings using Alpari UK terminal and FXDD web data (http://global.fxdd.com/en/mt1m-data.html) the account stopped out prematurely.

 

Symbol: EURUSD

Time frame: M5

Leverage: 500

Stop out level: 20%

Start date: 2008-02-26

End date: 2008-03-06 (stopped out)

Initial deposit: 10000 USD

End equity: 302.99 USD

Sorry to hear that. I won't disbute your results. It could be valid reason or it could be something else to get this results. My results are not the same. I used $5000.00 starting balance for 18 month. 90% modeling quality (even though I was going for 99% modeling quality and never got that. This is after I convert from Dukascopy) Either you forget about this EA or still interested, just do the forward test. That is my suggestion.

 

Hi and thanks again fx4_ever

 

Is here somebody able decompile it or can fx4_ever post mq4 file? Why first entry is 2:1 why not only one lot? It´s better for spread or not? When I 2lots buy and 1 lot sell that´s same as buy 1 lot or not? When it close jobs? I thing there will be good when any profit will be touched close all jobs. Can anybody tell me how it work?

 

Thanks!

Is there a reason for you to decompile? If you need to know how strategy works, all you have to do is to run just one cycle. Make EA to hibernate after cycle is over. Then, you can see how it works. No need to see the code.

 

 

Coming back to the first Ea,Gridzilla, I have been testing it and it makes good profit (on demo).The other good thing about it is that its placed pending orders are visually available and its easy to manage/tweek the grid according to real price action.However, the drawback is that in Auto mode it does not close first grid orders automatically(as touted by the makers) when the price moves outside and a new grid is formed following the gap and the Tmode orders,resultantly there is a large drawdown and one has to monitor this ea to manually close the dangling trades of the first grid.

One solution I have tried is to use bigger lot( 1 lot instead of 0.1 or 0.01) and kept the profit order modest 100$,but this is a dangerous risk reward strategy and requires deep pockets as well.

If the smart coders here who have already tweeked it can do so again ,especially auto closing of first grid when the next one is formed then this ea has a good potential particularly in post US period.

I liked Gridzilla and have used it in my live trading. That is the reason that I start the thread. However, Gridzilla need some modifiation, which no one seems to have the time to take an the challenge. Meanwhile, CFTC rules that US resid leverage changing to 50:1, Grid trading is pretty much done for me. I've spend a lots of time developing this strategy and spend a lots of money making it into an EA. But, this will not go to waste if someone can use it on their trading if they are interested and their brokers still allowing higher leverage. That is the only reason that I am sharing my own EA. I think it is unique in that Grid/Margingale/Hedge in all one. Just my opinion. If Gridzilla works for you, that is good. I am not endorsing my EA or Gridzilla. It doesn't matter to me. Whatever works for you, is what you should trade.

 

I am not able, but even if I can - I will not. It is generously shared and only the fx4_ever can give the source and permissions of modifying it!

musketeer, thanks for that.

 

hi fx4_ever and thank's, I tried and and it sounds interesting. I wanted to know if you can change the initial batch.

 

To understand, if instead of starting with 0.01 and 0.02 would like to start with 0.1 and 0.2 which settings should I change?

 

Or changes can be made only with the mq4?

It's Grid system with martingale. So, starting with 0.1 is too high. It is much safer if you could trade 0.01. If you feel money is not utilized, then, please add 2nd pairs to the basket. No need to change magic#. Just add EA to the 2nd pair.

 

------

Ok, friends,

 

I see a lots of interest and I feel now is the time that I need to make some points here.

 

1) This strategy is NOT for everyone. But, since this thread is under "Come and join if you like Grid Trading", I assume most of you either already have experience in Grid trading and interested in Grid trading. Otherwise, why would you come and waste your time? Right? By sharing my EA, which made me handsome profit in the past, I thought it would be nice to share with people who really like Grid Trading. I am sharing the EA without any motive. Also, I don't really care if anyone like it or dislike it. My feeling is not going to get hurt one way or another.

 

2) EA has other options and I disabled them and make it simpler version. The reason is, some of the options may not benefit. Also, in order to use those options, I have to provide the supporting documents, which I do not have. Remember, this is not intended for commercial product. It's solely programmed for my own use, so I never needed for manual. iWin as is, is the safest(0.01) way to trade and you can still optimized by options available in the EA.

Note: If you have a broker only allowed 0.1 lot as min requirement, I suggest you need to either find another broker who offers 0.01 lot allowance or don't trade Grid strategy. Believe me, starting at 0.1, you'll really be sorry when market turns on you and there's no retracement insight!

 

3) Quick over view of how the EA is placing orders and how it is closing

 

First level, EA will open 0.01 lot long and 0.02 lot short. If price moves up to the Grid level, 2nd level, it will place 0.01 lot Long and 0.04 lot Short. If price moves up again, 3rd level it will place 0.01 lot long and 0.08 lot Short.

At this point, you have total 0.03 long and 0.1 Short in combined orders. Let's assume price moves down 1 level, Now EA will close every order and profit.

I've add 2 pips to the retracement, so that we can make few more pips at closing. -- see image below to understand better. Illustration below (image) doesn't count for slippage, pip spread at the time of closing or 2 pip added allowance. Just simple explanation for you to understand how the strategy works.

 

It also have breakeven options internally configure. After 3 level, EA will seek to close-all if combined profit/loss = 0

 

Start and stop Trading hours.

This is there if you want to start after the news or you want to stop opening new orders at certain time, etc.. Example: around 10:30am EST, this is when EURO session is ending. So, around 9:30am to 10:30am, there's lots of activity. If you want to start after this hour, you can use this options.

No matter what, either using hibernation or this time settings, if you already have open trades, EA will know to finished that cycle, then Hibernate.

 

 

http://i51.tinypic.com/erlunn.png

Edited October 15, 2010 by fx4_ever

[fx4_ever]

Hi fx4_ever,

 

First I would like to renew my thanks. Your generosity is greatly appreciated. You are very welcome!

 

You used your EA for the past three years, so your experience is invaluable.

What is your greatest drawdown 'not comfortable' which you had to face and for which you used the emergency procedure 'manual shutdown'.

(Drawdown as a percentage of capital employed)

And also, how often it happens on? If you let it run 24/5, who knows how often it will happen. However, like I mentioned in my prior post, I do not run it 24/7. So, I never run into where DD is just too high that I had to cut the losses. Ouch! I work too hard for trading and hate to lose. That is the reason that I create this system. In forex, if you put SL too close, even if you are correct on direction, most likely, you'll get stopped before it goes your way. It happen too many times and I don't like to lose. This system is perfect way to avoid using SL and still getting my profit. I cut the losses when I have multiple levels and price is not moving. Meaning, trend will most likely continue and it will not retrace as I want it to. Then, I cut the losses. This is personal choice, but my tolerance is when I am at about 7th level, this is where I do my chart study and see if I want to continue or cut my losses. Fact of the matter is, when EURUSD has run 150 pips around noon EST and there is no sign of reversal and I am already at 7th level, it doesn't look good. So, I do not want to continue the level anymore. So, cut the losses.

What I usually do is, calculate the next level (8th or whatever your max level you want to stick out), and put that as SL. Also, half way from 6th level to 7th level price, I put it as profit target. Disable EA and walk away. This way, either it will close all with minimal loss or max loss depend on the price movement. Either way, I decided to take losses at this level and my mind is made up and act on it. It's easier to walk away then watch it paint dry... lol

 

Best regards

freddy

 

P.S. Oh!, I forgot to tell: I put it on demo since last night, and it won already around 7%! :)Good for you. But, this is pretty normal. I've gain over 100 % in just 1 month in the past. Undecided market is very good for the strategy...

 

Please see above in color for my reply.

[boleslav]

Hi fx4_ever

 

Thank you very much for your explain, your post and your system. Realy very good work. I´m sorry for testing decompiling your EA but I like have all code nothing else.

 

Your system looks fine. Dangerous but what is not dangerous in FX :)

 

Grid trading is in my opinion good way to trade. Now I´m testing my idea descripted here:

 

http://indo-investasi.com/showthread.php/9301-Help-with-EA

 

If is somebody interesting about any grid trading idea look there and for you fx4_ever this is I think better for leverage but still hedging and that is in NFA prohibited. Can I ask you why you not open account at any other destination such as UK or IBFX is now in Australia?

 

Thanks to everybody here

 

Have a nice weekend :)

 

PS: Jarora I can´t send you PM becouse I have not enought thanks. Send me email via PM.

Edited October 15, 2010 by boleslav

[fx4_ever]

Hi fx4_ever

 

Thank you very much for your explain, your post and your system. Realy very good work. I´m sorry for testing decompiling your EA but I like have all code nothing else.

 

Your system looks fine. Dangerous but what is not dangerous in FX :)

 

Grid trading is in my opinion good way to trade. Now I´m testing my idea descripted here:

 

http://indo-investasi.com/showthread.php/9301-Help-with-EA

 

If is somebody interesting about any grid trading idea look there and for you fx4_ever this is I think better for leverage but still hedging and that is in NFA prohibited. Can I ask you why you not open account at any other destination such as UK or IBFX is now in Australia?

 

Thanks to everybody here

 

Have a nice weekend :)

 

Hi;

I will check out your thread soon. No, we (US residents) have a little choice. Right now, I may open account with some of overseas' brokers, but I found this article:

 

"Foreign banks, many of which offer forex platforms to U.S. investors, will be prohibited counter-parties because of language in Dodd-Frank Section 742. However, this provision does not become effective until July 16, 2011. While Congress did not leave room for bank regulators to make rules that would allow foreign banks to intermediate forex transactions for U.S. retail investors after July 2011, these foreign banks are still outside of the CFTC’s jurisdiction and thus unaffected by the CFTC’s final regulations on OTC retail forex. Therefore, a U.S.

retail trader could continue to trade forex through a foreign bank, with no leverage or hedging restrictions, until July 16, 2011 without running afoul of any of the new rules that have received so much attention."

 

http://blogs.fxstreet.com/francesc/2010/10/04/foreign-banks-still-eligible-counterparties-for-retail-forex-traders/

 

 

So, as you see, after July 2011, we are no longer able to open an account with brokers outside of US. :(

I do trade iWin and other hedging system on my clients account, so it is still in use. But, my personal account, I am trading scalping and swing trade. I do quick grid trading just to catch some movement, but it is hard to gauge those timing. Otherwise, you'll ended up losing or run out of margin since my margin is only 50:1

All US brokers how put US clients in overseas branch office, they have to move everyone to US office by end of the month. It's CFTC rules. Forex.com.uk moved to Forex.com.us IBFX same. FXSOL moved, Gallent, FXCM, UK, they all moved their US client to either other brokers or US office.

[fx4_ever]

Additional note for someone using iWin

If you want different grid space based on price movement from your entry point, you can set your own.

 

example: Let's say you set your GridSpace 1 = 30, GridSpace 2 = 50, GridSpace 3 = 60, GridSpace 4 = 60, GridSpace 5 = 60,

You enter Grid trade when price is 2.0000. So, next trade level is 2.0030, 2.0060, 2.0090 (0 - 100 pips, 30 pips interval)

2.0140, 2.0490 (101 - 200 from your starting point = 50 pips spacing)...

so on...

 

Note: EA will close all on 1 full Grid space retracement + 2 pips (allowance that I made to put in the code). So, if you are making different grid space, your highest Grid space interval should not be less than prior grid space. It can be same, but not less. Otherwise, EA will close all on final grid space retracement, thus, you'll ended up negative. (martingale effect) In other words, GridSpace 1<=GridSpace 2<=GridSpace3 <= GridSpace 4 <= GridSpace 5

Edited October 16, 2010 by fx4_ever

[puzzlebird]

should it be GridSpace 1<=GridSpace 2<=GridSpace3 <= GridSpace 4 <= GridSpace 5???

[fx4_ever]

should it be GridSpace 1<=GridSpace 2<=GridSpace3 <= GridSpace 4 <= GridSpace 5???

 

Yes, good catch! thanks for the correction. I will edit my post.

[danny_pip]

Does somebody has good settings to share;

My backtest on AUDUSD blows up the account; AUDUSD is very trending last weeks

[fx4_ever]

Does somebody has good settings to share;

My backtest on AUDUSD blows up the account; AUDUSD is very trending last weeks

 

What settings did you use? Can you post yours and results (html?) If you could initiate this, We can go from there. Not only AudUSD trends, EUR/USD trend as you know. So, when it is trending with barely retrace, smaller grid space works the best.

[clovelly]

Thank you fx4_ever for sharing your EA. From the backtest result, I noted that the EA will trade the grid in the following scheme (assuming the price action is suitable for a selling cycle):

 

Original Scheme

 

1. buy 0.01 lot, sell 0.02 lot

2. if price goes higher to next grid point, buy 0.01 & sell 0.04 (assuming martingale factor 2)

3. if price goes higher to next grid point, buy 0.01 & sell 0.08, etc.

 

All the trades will be closed at the same time for a profit or a loss.

 

Is that different from the following scheme #2:

 

1. sell 0.01 lot

2. if price goes higher to next grid point, sell 0.03

3. if price goes higher to next grid point, sell 0.07, etc.

 

except that the original scheme will lose more due to spreads?

 

In other words, why do you opt for this trading strategy, rather than a 'standard' martingale one?

Edited October 17, 2010 by clovelly

[fx4_ever]

Thank you fx4_ever for sharing your EA. From the backtest result, I noted that the EA will trade the grid in the following scheme (assuming the price action is suitable for a selling cycle):

 

Original Scheme

 

1. buy 0.01 lot, sell 0.02 lot

2. if price goes higher to next grid point, buy 0.01 & sell 0.04 (assuming martingale factor 2)

3. if price goes higher to next grid point, buy 0.01 & sell 0.08, etc.

 

All the trades will be closed at the same time for a profit or a loss.

 

Is that different from the following scheme #2:

 

1. sell 0.01 lot

2. if price goes higher to next grid point, sell 0.03

3. if price goes higher to next grid point, sell 0.07, etc. This would work fine and make good profit. but, this example is bit higher than 2x martingale. next level will be 0.15 and 0.32.. increasing the lots too rapidly.

 

except that the original scheme will lose more due to spreads?

 

In other words, why do you opt for this trading strategy, rather than a 'standard' martingale one?

 

Let me explain by illustrating example. You'll see why you want hedging while martingale the losing side.

When you hedge on same pair, it doesn't use margin. So, why not hedge and make extra money? It's free money. If you are Grid/Martingale anyway, adding hedging part of it only helps and never hurts.

 

 

http://i55.tinypic.com/10xri4n.png

Edited October 17, 2010 by fx4_ever