Ocean Theory indis from TSD elite

[udc]

hi UDC

You have done some major and innovative improvements to the ocean software, unfortunately I am not able to take advantage of your work because I am running Tradestation software, I have never considered using Metatrader. What are the advantages of Metrader versus tradestation

 

Well, as for the features Tradestation is definitely a better and more professional piece of software. Metatrader is very simple and that simplicity and free availability and enormous number of custom indis (and maybe even more enormous number of fraudulent automated trading systems) makes it so popular. Also, Metatrader is order based (as opposite to position based) which makes it better for some cases and worse for other. I personally think you should first consider what broker you want to trade with. Then consider what software is available from that broker and whether it suits you. Even if the software doesn't suit you, there may be a third-party solutions (e.g. Dukascopy doesn't support Metatrader, but there are connectors made by third-party vendors allowing MT4 usage for the fee next to nothing).

 

Anyway, if you trade manually then you can simply keep using your broker and your broker's software and just run Metatrader (using a free demo available from many brokers, preferably ECN) simultaneously.

[udc]

Well, regarding the Jurik tools. I am not through the manual yet, but JMA does look interesting. I will compare it to TEMA, which is used by default in some Ocean indis, and if it really does perform better I may as well do JMA-based versions of Ocean's.

Or if you know any even better MA just say so.

[Sixer]

udc,

 

the Jurik indicators (not only JMA) for Metatrader are available - no need to program it by yourself.

 

Sixer

[udc]

I was talking about JMA-based versions of Ocean's, i.e. to take Ocean indicators that use TEMA and replace it with JMA.

[udc]

TEMA - JMA comparison

 

So I compared JMA with TEMA and a few other low-lag MAs and indeed JMA seems superior to TEMA. TEMA is very fast but the overshooting is the problem. In contrast JMA, even with lower period, is smoother and more accurate. I almost thought it is repainting but there is no such thing in the source code (taken from here: http://www.forex-tsd.com/digital-filters/198-jurik.html).

 

On the picture the yellow line is JMA with length 4 and phase 50, and blue is TEMA with period 8:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3235/temajma.png

 

Original size screenshot:

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3235/temajma.png

 

 

So yeah, I will think about making JMA an alternative for TEMA in Ocean indis.

[Grain Trader]

The best way is to always update on the 1st post and this will be easy for the author to manage and as well as the members to download.

 

excellent idea taipan

[Grain Trader]

I was talking about JMA-based versions of Ocean's, i.e. to take Ocean indicators that use TEMA and replace it with JMA.

This would be an excellent idea UDC, I honestly believe that the Jurik indicatore are more superior than the Ocean indicators.

Mark Jurik originally developed his tools for military use during the cold war, they are highly sophisticated, very smooth curving and adaptable and probably very similar to the Ocean indicators, actually if you place the jurik indicators and the primary ocean indicators on your chart, you will be able to appreciate the sophistication of the Jurik tools. Now UDC if somehow you can combine the best of these two indicators then we will probably have in our hands one of the best indicators available for trading.

 

Other indicators that I would also highly recommend are The Hilbert sine waves are also excellent indicators, The Hilbert Sine Wave was developed by John Ehlers and first published in his book “Rocket Science for Traders”. The indicator uses an algorithm, originally applied to digital signal processing, that measures the amount of cyclical energy in a stream of data, for example, a stream of market prices also the Hurst channels

[Grain Trader]

So I compared JMA with TEMA and a few other low-lag MAs and indeed JMA seems superior to TEMA. TEMA is very fast but the overshooting is the problem. In contrast JMA, even with lower period, is smoother and more accurate. I almost thought it is repainting but there is no such thing in the source code (taken from here: http://www.forex-tsd.com/digital-filters/198-jurik.html).

 

On the picture the yellow line is JMA with length 4 and phase 50, and blue is TEMA with period 8:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3235/temajma.png

 

Original size screenshot:

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3235/temajma.png

 

 

So yeah, I will think about making JMA an alternative for TEMA in Ocean indis.

 

This was a great comparison you made, and i agree JMA would be a superior replacement instead of using TEMA, TEMA is only effective in conditions that are stable in the market but when the market becomes volatile JMA is a more superior indicator

Please remember what ever you develop remember that I am running Tradestation and not MT

Edited April 14, 2012 by Grain Trader

[udc]

Exactly as you say, when there is a big move TEMA can accumulate so much speed that it manages to change direction not until way beyond the crossroad.

 

In Ocean indis TEMA is used in 2 cases:

• a variable SC (smoothing constant) - this is in many Ocean indis and it means pre-smoothing of the price before it's used in the actual math; this variable is by default 1 which means disabled and also in the manual it's not recommended to use it as it would bring arbitrariness; thus in Metatrader versions I didn't even implement it
  
• a variable SmLen - this is used in bounded tools NDX, NST and NXC and here it is not just an optional feature but the integral part of the indi, default is 20 for NDX and 10 for NST
  

 

So now we can safely assume that whenever NDX/NST/NXC gathers a big move it will probably overshoots. That may be a serious issue since these tools are supposed to mark overbought/oversold area and because of TEMA they may appear in OB/OS even when they in fact shouldn't be there (yet). Therefore now I am trying to replace TEMA with JMA in these and I expect it would give a more accurate picture.

 

In comparison with many other low lag MAs the TEMA is quite good because the others overshoot too, so I guess that's why Jim and Pat chose TEMA. However JMA is a different league.

 

 

So far I looked into the code of JMA and RSX and, well, Jurik and Ocean are like each from different world. I wouldn't say one is superior to another. In Jurik the code at the first sight exhibits a signal processing techniques, Mark Jurik definitely knows his stuff very well. If he just would have brought his website into 21st century and made his tools officially available for Metatrader he would be much more famous. But the same is true for Ocean as well. Jim Sloman knows his stuff very well too, but his area is different from Jurik, when he looks at the market he doesn't see a data that should be processed, denoised and smoothed. He has a gift of looking at things from wholly different perspective. Well, as you said, if these two guys united together that would be something.

Edited April 14, 2012 by udc

[udc]

RSX vs NDX vs NDX_JMA

 

Turned out quite nice, see for yourself:

 

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9563/rsxndxjma.png

 

Original size screenshot:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9563/rsxndxjma.png

 

So, first is RSX(14) and NDX with the default TEMA(20). NDX is a bit faster but much more jumpy. Third, yellow, is NDX with JMA(20) instead of TEMA. Way too smooth.

Fourth, in orange, is NDX with JMA(10). Now we are using smoothing with just a half period than the original NDX's TEMA and yet we are smoother.

Last one is NDX with JMA(7), that's almost only a third of the original smoothing period but we are still smoother then the original.

 

Now notice the divergence I marked. RSX recognized it correctly, yet original NDX fails. NDX with JMA(20) is flat, and NDX with JMA(10) and JMA(7) correctly shows the divergence.

So, if you were at the point of vertical blue line, with RSX you may suspect that it's gonna go down. And you would be right. But with original NDX you might have thought it will go further up.

 

I would say NDX with JMA(10) is much more better than the original NDX. It's using a smoothing period half of the original size, yet it's smoother, it's more accurate and compared to RSX it's still a little bit faster.

 

What do you think?

[fawaz79]

UDC.. this is great work... you are making the best out of the best :) Do share the ocean indicators with JMA. Its clear that its far more superior that original oceans.NDX with JMA 10 seems the best. It would be even better if you have them in one indicator combined - NDX with JMA and RSX

[fawaz79]

Hey UDC,

 

Any progress with BTX/STX?

[udc]

NDX/NST/NXC with JMA

 

Here are improved versions of NDX, NST and NXC indis, as well as the cumulative NDXNSTNXC indi, with the option to use JMA instead of TEMA.

 

Because all the JMA calculations are performed for the whole chart over and over again at every new tick, it may or may not increase the CPU load. For that reason I created a new variable MaxBars to limit the number of history bars onto which the indicator will be applied. For example, MaxBars=500 means that the indicator will be calculated only for 500 most recent bars. MaxBars=0 means to calculate the whole chart.

 

NDXNSTNXC without JMA and with JMA:

http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/3974/ndxnstnxcjma.png

 

Original size screenshot:

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3974/ndxnstnxcjma.png

 

 

All 19 indis:

http://uloz.to/xENQnqM/ocn-classic-4-15-2012-7z

[Sixer]

udc,

 

thansk for the JMA update.

 

For those who want to get a very short explanation of the ocean indicators from Slim:

 

http://www.manyblessings.net/ocex4mivi.html (5 mins video)

http://www.manyblessings.net/ocinde.html (14 mins video)

 

Sixer

[udc]

It would be even better if you have them in one indicator combined - NDX with JMA and RSX

 

You can do that easily - just put the first indi onto a chart and then put the other one over it in the same window and you will get this:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3089/ndxjmarsx.png

 

Original size screenshot:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3089/ndxjmarsx.png

 

You just need to make sure all overlayered indis have fixed minimum and maximum. They even may have a different scale as in this example where NDX is -100 to 100 and RSX is 0 to 100. As long as both limits are explicitly set, the middle of all indicators will logically match and that's what matters.

 

Jurik_RSX for reference:

http://pastebin.com/QRjtCfh4

 

 

Any progress with BTX/STX?

 

So far nope.

[udc]

RSX of JMA

 

Not directly related to Ocean, but while browsing Jurik manual I noticed he is showing off with RSX of JMA-smoothed price, so just a little quickie:

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2146/rsxofjma.png

 

Original size screenshot:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2146/rsxofjma.png

 

Jurik_RSXofJMA:

http://pastebin.com/MYsZbbuF

[udc]

JMA of RSX

 

The other way around - RSX is made of HIGH+LOW and JMA is made of RSX. Jurik demonstrated it as an example of crossover strategy. I've made the vertical lines by hand, just out of curiosity.

 

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7829/jmaofrsx.png

 

Original size screenshot:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7829/jmaofrsx.png

 

Jurik_JMAofRSX:

http://pastebin.com/ieCJvpkX

[Grain Trader]

Exactly as you say, when there is a big move TEMA can accumulate so much speed that it manages to change direction not until way beyond the crossroad.

 

In Ocean indis TEMA is used in 2 cases:

• a variable SC (smoothing constant) - this is in many Ocean indis and it means pre-smoothing of the price before it's used in the actual math; this variable is by default 1 which means disabled and also in the manual it's not recommended to use it as it would bring arbitrariness; thus in Metatrader versions I didn't even implement it
  
• a variable SmLen - this is used in bounded tools NDX, NST and NXC and here it is not just an optional feature but the integral part of the indi, default is 20 for NDX and 10 for NST
  

 

So now we can safely assume that whenever NDX/NST/NXC gathers a big move it will probably overshoots. That may be a serious issue since these tools are supposed to mark overbought/oversold area and because of TEMA they may appear in OB/OS even when they in fact shouldn't be there (yet). Therefore now I am trying to replace TEMA with JMA in these and I expect it would give a more accurate picture.

 

In comparison with many other low lag MAs the TEMA is quite good because the others overshoot too, so I guess that's why Jim and Pat chose TEMA. However JMA is a different league.

 

 

So far I looked into the code of JMA and RSX and, well, Jurik and Ocean are like each from different world. I wouldn't say one is superior to another. In Jurik the code at the first sight exhibits a signal processing techniques, Mark Jurik definitely knows his stuff very well. If he just would have brought his website into 21st century and made his tools officially available for Metatrader he would be much more famous. But the same is true for Ocean as well. Jim Sloman knows his stuff very well too, but his area is different from Jurik, when he looks at the market he doesn't see a data that should be processed, denoised and smoothed. He has a gift of looking at things from wholly different perspective. Well, as you said, if these two guys united together that would be something.

 

hi UDC

You are absolutely right in your comparison between Sloman and Jurik, they have completely different styles, Sloman is more of a esoteric minded person, a gifted person , dreamer and it appears he has mastered the art if mental visualization. He was the person that sold the Delta Phenomenon to Wells Wilder for one million dollars. He is very articulate and intelligent person, after the Delta Phenomenon, he developed the Ocean Software series utilizing the program skills of Pat his partner. Jurik on the other hand is a pure mathematical scientist, he thinks and breathes numbers, his approach is more practical, scientific and they were proven mathematically and scientifically to be accurate. This was the reason he was hired by the US government during the cold war, so he is an old veteran from the past and maybe the reason his website does not have all those bells and whistles.

 

But you cannot underestimate the accuracy of his indicators, they are used by professional traders and money managers and they are just your typical no nonsense hardcore type indicators. That is thet reason when you did your detailed comparison in post #135, the Jurik indicators were proven to be more superior than the Ocean indicators.

 

The jurik RSX in your first example was more sensitive to the market, more smoother and in the divergence example you illustrated, the RSX successfully detected weakness as prices were rising, therefore it gave an early warning signal to go short as prices were rising.

 

NDX with TEMA in your 2nd example gave a false signal as the indicator continued to rise with prices.

 

NDX with Jurik and TEMA in your 3rd example was flat

 

While NDA Jueik without TEMA in your 4th example gave a good signal to go short

 

NDX with JMA 7 in your final example was excellent as it clearly shows the divergence and alerted you to go short early

[awsl]

Just came across this ocean theory thread, has someone studied it and find it applicable to your trading?

 

can you post some charts and share your experience/comments?

[Grain Trader]

hi awsi

Yes I have studied these indicators for more than3 years and I have also implemented them in my own personal trading, they require a lot of time to learn and understand their concepts, check the video links posted by Sixer in this thread, you will get a good perception about their use

[fawaz79]

Hi UDC,

 

Is there a way we can incorporate the NDXNSTNXC indicator to plot divergence lines like some of the divergence indicators available here in the forum? It would be great if this is possible.

 

fawaz

[udc]

Hi, sure that's doable quite easily but you will have to provide me with a divergence code (just show me another indicator with this feature) because I have only one divergence code and that I am using in commercial solutions so I can't use that.

[udc]

BTX/STX Tradestation -> Metatrader conversion status

 

I am still working on getting BTX/STX into Metatrader, though I haven't been successful in initializing the Ocean Plus DLL (OBP1Lock32.dll) from within Metatrader yet.

 

If anyone wants to help (or knows someone who may be able to help) the problem is this:

 

In Tradestation, after installing and keygenning the Ocean Plus for TS package, the following indicator source code will show "TRUE" in the EasyLanguage Output Bar / Print Log:

DefineDLLFunc: "OBP1Lock32.dll", BOOL, "LTInitializeFromIni";
IF CURRENTBAR = 1 THEN PRINT (LTInitializeFromIni);

 

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7558/oceanplustradestation.png

 

But if I run the following script (basically identical to Tradestation code) in Metatrader I get 0 (false):

#import "OBP1Lock32.dll"
 bool LTInitializeFromIni;
#import

void start()
{
Print(LTInitializeFromIni);
}

 

http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/4107/oceanplusmetatrader.png

 

Since I can't initialize, all further function calls just return 0. Now debugging Metatrader nor the DLL is not trivial since Metatrader is protected by Themida and the DLL by Diamond Lock (which in turn seems to use PC Guard). Maybe the DLL somehow checks what is calling it and will "talk" only to Tradestation (its DLL).

 

I want BTX in my chart so I am not giving up easily but I may just do that, eventually.

[fawaz79]

Great !! There are quite a few here -- http://mir.cr/0SZQTGQ3

 

Appreciate if you could go through the logic of a few and place the best one out.

 

thanks for your efforts UDC...

 

You provide commercial solutions too? Maybe you could also point out a few indicators of yours which are promising and not too expensive ;)

[⭐ dynastic]

Hi UDC, I found some info on PC Guard.

 

Maybe you can try, or some other OllyDBG expert here can help educate Ocean DLL file ?

 

I have included some instruction for Olly and PC Guard unpacking PDF instructions, also OBP1Lock32.DLL file.

 

http://uloz.to/xNTBEvt/ocn-dll-zip

 

Also extra video tutorial for PC Guard unpacking here: http://tuts4you.com/download.php?view.3286

 

Someone please help educate. :)

Edited April 18, 2012 by digian