logicgate Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 logicgate said: "because everyone has the deep pockets to open a 683 lot position" If you knew how to read time and sales (it's obvious you don't) you'd recognize that as a "block order" of retail orders submitted by the brokerage firm. You've assumed that all trades with a similar timestamp (same second) are from the same source, which is a wrong assumption, especially since a few of them are odd lots, and big firms do not trade in odd lot sizes - 146, 147, 65, etc. Furthermore, as I said, they can execute millions of trades a second and they have up to 10 seconds to report a trade. In other words, you are just fooling yourself if you think you're reading order flow, you're not. It is more than good enough to merge orders this way and it works as expected, because in the end, it doesn´t matter if you are consolidating orders of institutions mixed with retail traders, what is gonna matter is the imbalance of supply and demand, and judging the effort vs result of them. I can set the consolidation period for 10 seconds, 20 seconds, 30 seconds, it seems you did not understand how the indicator works. It seems that you don´t know that block trades are made by institutions... No such thing as block trades of retail traders. And they break them up to mask the size, even then the size is not the average 1-5 lot Joe. Even if they are fired through different brokerage firms, they have to be executed almost at the same time, and as I said, you can adjust the interval of consolidation and grab them. Anyways, they always stick like a sore thumb if you know what to look for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logicgate Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 Just a little sample of only one day - this happens all the time. In the first image the consolidated time and sales orders showed a 1034 consolidated buy that happened inside 30 seconds, market went up 21 pts after that. In second image (a little bit later on the same day), price started rolling over after that up move, broke the demand line of the uptrend channel, big seller was holding the offer (clearly visible on the 30 seconds chart), then we a got a 589 buy order in a bar that almost looked like an upthrust, closing very weak = bearish EvR, two chances to short, one at the bar the other a couple of minutes later when the offer held again with no demand, for a 11 points down move in 5 min. 3rd image (also later in the same day), shows seller hitting the market at previous area of weakness, we get a consolidated sell of 1.254 lot (438 + 358 + 458 (this was a massive bearish EvR, so here you consider it a sell, was totally absorbed), for a nice 21 points short. There were even more examples later in the day, and this happens almost every day, but hey, it doesn´t work and I don´t know how to read it :)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logicgate Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 If you can´t see the full image above, you have to either press ctrl and "-" (minus) on the keyboard to zoom out, or right click and choose to open image in a new tab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
⭐ gadfly Posted August 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 logicgate said: "No such thing as block trades of retail traders" Of course there is: any number of retail orders at the same bid/ask price executed within about 10 seconds of each other may be reported at the same time by the broker. You can look it up on the FINRA website. So you're a scalper? Then I can see how that approach would work for you, but I'm not, so I need a longer time frame view, which I can get from Cumulative Advancing/Declining Volume, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logicgate Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 logicgate said: "No such thing as block trades of retail traders" Of course there is: any number of retail orders at the same bid/ask price executed within about 10 seconds of each other may be reported at the same time by the broker. You can look it up on the FINRA website. So you're a scalper? Then I can see how that approach would work for you, but I'm not, so I need a longer time frame view, which I can get from Cumulative Advancing/Declining Volume, etc. No. the retail orders clutter all the time and sales with 1 and 2 lots, you can see a gazillion orders happening at the same time, at the same second, even if you have tall monitors, with time sales configured with a small font showing like 70 rows of orders, sometimes the whole screen gets filled with 1 lot orders happening at the same second, same thing when retail stops get hit, you see those flurries of hundreds of 1 lot orders going at the same second, so this is not correct. I am a day trader, don´t consider 10 point and 20 point trades "scalps"... You can apply the same study to higher timeframe bars, it will consolidate big orders and sum them in the same bar. I also use the cumulative delta, so the consolidated orders is a nice addition, cumulative delta is a different reading that takes in consideration the whole bid and ask volume, unfiltered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logicgate Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blocktrade.asp https://finance.yahoo.com/news/block-trade-002326076.html As I said, does not really matter to whom a 1000 (or whatever value) consolidated order belongs, the size is what matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
⭐ mindvision25 Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 "bar that looked negative was actually a massive buy, only visible with consolidated time and sales order" without time and sales order I can tell this is bullish EvR, look at the previous bar volume and spread. 1034 bar has more volume but spread is narrow compare to previous one. So there is definitely buying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logicgate Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 "bar that looked negative was actually a massive buy, only visible with consolidated time and sales order" without time and sales order I can tell this is bullish EvR, look at the previous bar volume and spread. 1034 bar has more volume but spread is narrow compare to previous one. So there is definitely buying Sure, we have a higher high, higher low, higher close, EvR, but would you have bought it? Probably not... It looks negative, with a close below 50% of range, you would expect next bar to be a down bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam200x Posted September 10, 2020 Report Share Posted September 10, 2020 Special thanks to @logicgate for sharing so much insights. I have been using my own self-built Cumulative Delta system and Lotsize-categorised-fundflow to detect the hidden supply & demand mechanics behind the stock price action. I am a swing and position trader. I can strongly agree to what logicgate has been discussing here in that these methods can really give an edge if you know what to look for. I cite with an example: Many times I have seen cases where consolidation is in process while price action gyrates within a range. With the background knowledge of seeing funds inflow increasing through the period, one can know that the probability of a breakout upwards is higher than a breakdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevergiveup Posted September 10, 2020 Report Share Posted September 10, 2020 Special thanks to @logicgate for sharing so much insights. I have been using my own self-built Cumulative Delta system and Lotsize-categorised-fundflow to detect the hidden supply & demand mechanics behind the stock price action. I am a swing and position trader. I can strongly agree to what logicgate has been discussing here in that these methods can really give an edge if you know what to look for. I cite with an example: Many times I have seen cases where consolidation is in process while price action gyrates within a range. With the background knowledge of seeing funds inflow increasing through the period, one can know that the probability of a breakout upwards is higher than a breakdown. can you provide a snap of what you say, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
⭐ jinjunk Posted September 11, 2020 Report Share Posted September 11, 2020 Thanks for all of you, especially gadfly and logicgate, for this insightful discussion, Thumbs up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandamannyc Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 Sure, we have a higher high, higher low, higher close, EvR, but would you have bought it? Probably not... It looks negative, with a close below 50% of range, you would expect next bar to be a down bar. Hey logicgate, Just curious, after reading through many thread i thought you were a chart reader using wyckoff/vsa to trade. Do you trade strictly off the DOM or combine chart trading? I currently chart trade with price action and volume and would like incorporate no bs//****** into my trading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
⭐ gadfly Posted May 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2021 Some use Relative Volume to do what logicgate talked about but I have not found that it provides an edge. As an example: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
⭐ laser1000it Posted May 6, 2021 Report Share Posted May 6, 2021 Web is full of member disclosing trading.....unfortunately I have never seen any tax capital gain fiscal confirmed from their account. Sorry for my replay but from my side is the reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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