precision_trader Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) You didn't stipulate if you fully understood the system or not since you used the word "confused". ============================================ Hi Dave, I have followed some of your other posts on this forum and am very impressed with your knowledge in the Forex trading, so I do not want to pick a fight with you. But, I have to admit that even I think I have fully understand and mastered this system, but I can be wrong in interpreting some of the signals, because you can never be sure that you have really mastered this system and I definitely do not have the time or have the guts to demo trade or live trade this system to prove if I fully understand this system. So, fairly to say, I do not claim that I have fully mastered this system. I don't know how to explain it to you, I just don't feel comfortable with this system after spending much time studying it. Something like: if you put 10 Elliot Wave experts in one room and give them the same chart and let them each label the wave counts on the chart, and again and again and again, people have proved that there will be definitely 10 different wave counts on the same chart. These wave counts looks good in hind-sight but in real-time there will be millions of combinations that you can count. This system may not be that bad, but I can't find anther good example for it. In hind-sight, these flips and cut may look good, but in real-time, can you be honest enough to trade these signals with your real money? Any theory or any edge or any winning statistics behind these signals? I can't find any. I have traded Commodies/Futures and Futures Options for over 10 years, and Forex Futures for over 4 years. I have studied/written and tested thousands of systems over the years. And be honest with you that this system makes me very uncomfortable to trade with my real-money. It is all hind-sight stuff like all of the lagging indicators, MACD, RSI, CCI, Stochatics, Bollinger-Band.. and millions of their derivatives. etc. I do not want to argue, just wanted to let people know that there are similar systems out there and please study more systems to compare them and see which one fit your trading style and personality the best. Do not try to force to fit yourself into the system, and people should try to find a good system to fit themselves, not the other way around. I do see lots of people here trying very hard to force to fit themselves into this (confused) system; at the end, people will find that is a very frustrating task. Dave, if you can make money with this system, that is good. I just don't see any edge with this system. It is very much like the Elliot Wave system in my opinion. But, there are people out there making money with Elliot Wave system; but I never even dare to trade the Elliot Wave system with my real money in real-time. In hind-sight, everything looks good, even a simple two MA cross-over system will make you a weekend millionaire. PEACE... Edited May 11, 2011 by kerberos007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxnizar Posted May 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Any one post the link of this ea, previous link not working please go here. just leave this thread only trade setup and learning only anything else to old thread, don't make mess here http://indo-investasi.com/showthread.php/441-S.T.A.R-(SuperTradeSystem)-Trading-System? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxnizar Posted May 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) watch list GBPAUD H4 I STAGE FINISH SECOND STEP START http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/fxnizar1/gbpaudh4new.gif Edited May 11, 2011 by fxnizar setup C0UNDE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David1713006337 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Any one post the link of this ea, previous link not working EA doesn't exist for this system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David1713006337 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 I have studied this system, and I have tried to always find an edge for all the strategies I study. After the study of this system, I just can't figure out what is the edge offered by this system? This system is basically just another variation of Moving Average (MA) cross-over system with some twists: the twist which is just complex enough to confuse hell out of people and make this system very subjective. Even you have mastered this system, I don't see how you can make money out of this system, however, you may not be losing money with this system. I don't trade MAX-10 system, but I have also studied the MAX-10 system: it is also a basically MA cross-over system with lots of other indicators to help the entry/re-entry and exits. It is also rather complex but I do believe the MAX-10 system does have an edge; if you have mastered it and decisively followed all of the rules, then you will make money. Because it has more mechanical rules to follow than this one. This is just my opinion. If you do not agree with me, please do not attack. This is just an observation from my part after I studied both systems in depth. Hopefully, some master traders here would also study both systems and compare them and offer your comments here. I will be all ears. Thanks and Regards, PEACE !!! As I read and interpret your posting, I can see how you fail to understand that one should fully learn the system and trade it for a while before they try to understand how and why it works. Just reading the instructions won't give you this insight. As for your reason why you don't understand how I (and other experienced traders) can make money with it, it boils down to actually learning the system and trading it which you are not doing. Consider fully learning the system and trade same before making that assumption. Not sure why you mention the MAX-10 System which is no where similar to this system. Let's not steer away from mentioning other systems in this thread. Let's stick with only discussing this system in this thread. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
precision_trader Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Okay, no more further discussion of this system. I will try very hard to study all of the chart setups that people post on this thread, trying to see where the edge would come from? and also record all of the trades taken by people and see what the total risk-reward of this system is? I do not know if anybody has the above information already. If yes, please post them and enlighten me what the edge is and what is the Risk-Reward of this system? So, enough discussion of this system and let the forth-coming chart setups and the real trades prove itself. I am here to carefully listen to and study all the setups and trades, and learn. Hopefully, all the signals and chart setups presented here will not contain any ambiguities and letting people arguing why that is a flip or a cut or a double cut, etc.. PEACE !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxnizar Posted May 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) Dear Brother and Sister Well. few thoughts we start this thread for the purpose of learning star system only. we believe this system is good,its worth, if we learn it. may be some other systems are good also we know it. but here we talk about star system only. according to our INDIAN philosophy " YOU NEVER FIND A GURU(MASTER),GURU(The master) FIND YOU!!!" I know western people hard to understand but eastern people know it easily. by this way you never find the system, the system find you. if you are capable to handle the system. if want great GURU,our duty is always preparing for the best then only best find you.be prepare!!!! i wish all of u one day or one day your Guru(system) find You. Edited May 11, 2011 by fxnizar freakgib and C0UNDE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakgib Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) ============================================ Hi Dave, I have followed some of your other posts on this forum and am very impressed with your knowledge in the Forex trading, so I do not want to pick a fight with you. But, I have to admit that even I think I have fully understand and mastered this system, but I can be wrong in interpreting some of the signals, because you can never be sure that you have really mastered this system and I definitely do not have the time or have the guts to demo trade or live trade this system to prove if I fully understand this system. So, fairly to say, I do not claim that I have fully mastered this system. I don't know how to explain it to you, I just don't feel comfortable with this system after spending much time studying it. Something like: if you put 10 Elliot Wave experts in one room and give them the same chart and let them each label the wave counts on the chart, and again and again and again, people have proved that there will be definitely 10 different wave counts on the same chart. These wave counts looks good in hind-sight but in real-time there will be millions of combinations that you can count. This system may not be that bad, but I can't find anther good example for it. In hind-sight, these flips and cut may look good, but in real-time, can you be honest enough to trade these signals with your real money? Any theory or any edge or any winning statistics behind these signals? I can't find any. I have traded Commodies/Futures and Futures Options for over 10 years, and Forex Futures for over 4 years. I have studied/written and tested thousands of systems over the years. And be honest with you that this system makes me very uncomfortable to trade with my real-money. It is all hind-sight stuff like all of the lagging indicators, MACD, RSI, CCI, Stochatics, Bollinger-Band.. and millions of their derivatives. etc. I do not want to argue, just wanted to let people know that there are similar systems out there and please study more systems to compare them and see which one fit your trading style and personality the best. Do not try to force to fit yourself into the system, and people should try to find a good system to fit themselves, not the other way around. I do see lots of people here trying very hard to force to fit themselves into this (confused) system; at the end, people will find that is a very frustrating task. Dave, if you can make money with this system, that is good. I just don't see any edge with this system. It is very much like the Elliot Wave system in my opinion. But, there are people out there making money with Elliot Wave system; but I never even dare to trade the Elliot Wave system with my real money in real-time. In hind-sight, everything looks good, even a simple two MA cross-over system will make you a weekend millionaire. PEACE... hi there Kerberos007 after reading your post and reading this part These wave counts looks good in hind-sight but in real-time there will be millions of combinations that you can count. This system may not be that bad, but I can't find anther good example for it. In hind-sight, these flips and cut may look good, but in real-time, can you be honest enough to trade these signals with your real money? Any theory or any edge or any winning statistics behind these signals? I can't find any. I have traded Commodies/Futures and Futures Options for over 10 years, and Forex Futures for over 4 years. I have studied/written and tested thousands of systems over the years. And be honest with you that this system makes me very uncomfortable to trade with my real-money. It is all hind-sight stuff like all of the lagging indicators, MACD, RSI, CCI, Stochatics, Bollinger-Band.. and millions of their derivatives. etc. i looks to me u dont understand the system what u did say here these flips and cut may look good, but in real-time, can you be honest enough to trade these signals with your real money? Any theory or any edge or any winning statistics behind these signals? I can't find any. looks like u think that we trade on those signals but that are not Signals they are steps of the whole setup also we dont count anything like with Eliot Wave actualy it has nothing to do with Eliot Wave it is Fibonassi based my advise Demo trade it for a while Edited May 12, 2011 by freakgib muhhatta 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David1713006337 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) ============================================ Hi Dave, I have followed some of your other posts on this forum and am very impressed with your knowledge in the Forex trading, so I do not want to pick a fight with you. But, I have to admit that even I think I have fully understand and mastered this system, but I can be wrong in interpreting some of the signals, because you can never be sure that you have really mastered this system and I definitely do not have the time or have the guts to demo trade or live trade this system to prove if I fully understand this system. So, fairly to say, I do not claim that I have fully mastered this system. I don't know how to explain it to you, I just don't feel comfortable with this system after spending much time studying it. Something like: if you put 10 Elliot Wave experts in one room and give them the same chart and let them each label the wave counts on the chart, and again and again and again, people have proved that there will be definitely 10 different wave counts on the same chart. These wave counts looks good in hind-sight but in real-time there will be millions of combinations that you can count. This system may not be that bad, but I can't find anther good example for it. In hind-sight, these flips and cut may look good, but in real-time, can you be honest enough to trade these signals with your real money? Any theory or any edge or any winning statistics behind these signals? I can't find any. I have traded Commodies/Futures and Futures Options for over 10 years, and Forex Futures for over 4 years. I have studied/written and tested thousands of systems over the years. And be honest with you that this system makes me very uncomfortable to trade with my real-money. It is all hind-sight stuff like all of the lagging indicators, MACD, RSI, CCI, Stochatics, Bollinger-Band.. and millions of their derivatives. etc. I do not want to argue, just wanted to let people know that there are similar systems out there and please study more systems to compare them and see which one fit your trading style and personality the best. Do not try to force to fit yourself into the system, and people should try to find a good system to fit themselves, not the other way around. I do see lots of people here trying very hard to force to fit themselves into this (confused) system; at the end, people will find that is a very frustrating task. Dave, if you can make money with this system, that is good. I just don't see any edge with this system. It is very much like the Elliot Wave system in my opinion. But, there are people out there making money with Elliot Wave system; but I never even dare to trade the Elliot Wave system with my real money in real-time. In hind-sight, everything looks good, even a simple two MA cross-over system will make you a weekend millionaire. PEACE... Good idea on not attempting to pick a fight. I read all your posts on this thread and you're actually confusing me. You state you mastered the system but in the same paragraph you state you don't claim to have mastered the system. You're incorrect about your wording "This system may not be that bad". One should have a working knowledge of the trading system and actually trade it before they make such statements. This system is actually the best manually traded forex system in my opinion and I can say this because I do understand it and I do trade it. Your statement "It is all hind-sight stuff like all of the lagging indicators, MACD, RSI, CCI, Stochatics, Bollinger-Band.. and millions of their derivatives. etc". Apparently you didn't study the system at all because the system doesn't use any of these indicators. I think you need to consider getting the newest system, study it and when you feel comfortable with it, then start trading it in demo before going live. Your statement "I do not want to argue, just wanted to let people know that there are similar systems out there and please study more systems to compare them and see which one fit your trading style and personality the best. Do not try to force to fit yourself into the system, and people should try to find a good system to fit themselves, not the other way around". Check out this forum and you will see that forum members have a vast amount of options where they can choose a system, test it out and determine if it will work for them, this forum isn't just about the STAR System. With some complicated systems, one does need to study it in more detail to understand it as this system requires. Your statement "I do see lots of people here trying very hard to force to fit themselves into this (confused) system; at the end, people will find that is a very frustrating task". Let's swap the wording...confused with difficult. We already know it's difficult and that's why this thread exists. Many forex systems are difficult to learn my friend. The motivation behind it is that the rewards are great if one can fully understand this system. Your statement "Dave, if you can make money with this system, that is good. I just don't see any edge with this system. It is very much like the Elliot Wave system in my opinion. But, there are people out there making money with Elliot Wave system; but I never even dare to trade the Elliot Wave system with my real money in real-time. In hind-sight, everything looks good, even a simple two MA cross-over system will make you a weekend millionaire". Read my past posts, I have been making money with the system...no "if" about it. You don't see an edge since you don't understand the system. If you take time to learn it and you will see the edge. One must learn to walk before you can run. Care to share the simple two MA Cross-over system that is making people millionaires over the weekend? To sum it up, all I read is ranting about a system you don't fully understand. Let's not post negatively about a system that confuses you. Many traders that have learned this system are doing quite well with it. This thread is for members to share their charts and questions and have "I want to learn this system" attitude, not read about how you in particular don't like the system and don't want to trade it. Posting such as this isn't needed and brings down the motivation of those that want to become a better and successful trader. Bringing down their mood with your inexperience of this system is not what we want to read here. I hope you now understand the purpose of this thread. If you were actually experienced with trading the Commodies for 10 years... you would have known that the actual spelling is Commodities. Studied and writtenThousands of systems tested... you need to do the math on that one. It took me weeks to program the Big Dog 7am -11am System and several others (all given away free by the way) but there is absolutely no way you did thousands in a 10 year period. Any that we have heard of? Thanks! I would like to apologize to my friends on this thread. I like the flow of positive learning energy that is shown here but I don't like it when someone that doesn't want to take the time to learn the system turns around and posts in a negative manner and attempts to suck the motivation out of those that want to learn the system. He didn't read all the posts and his posting here was conflicting with his own words. kerberos007 was better off not posting at all since he had absolutely nothing to positively share to the learning of this system. Edited May 11, 2011 by David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
precision_trader Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) Hi Freakgib, Yes, I do know the steps. Thanks anyway. However, my question is where is the edge of this system? Are all trend-following pull back systems the same as this one? Find a trend and then enter at a pull-back point? Some entering at a Fib level, some entering at one of the Daily pivots, some entering with Stochastic (or RSI) confirmation, etc.. They are all similar.. But, my question is where is the edge of this system that are better than other tons of trend-following pull back sytems. I can't find any. All of the trend-following system have a major flaw and lend them-self almost useless if not carefully confirmed the trend: The major flaw is all trend following pull back systems will fail miserably in a choppy and range markets. With hind-sight people will ignore all the range/choppy signals and only show you the charts when the market is trending. Remember, from all of the statistics that the Fx market is trending only 30% of time, and the other 70% of time the market is chopping. So, in order to have an edge in a trend-following pull back system, one has to develop a system that can clears show when the market is trending and when the market is ranging, and that is the most difficult part of any system design, especially for trend-following pull-back system. Also, even in a trending market, how do you determine the market is reversing or continue? How do you tell with confidence that the market will reverse and follow the major trend or the pull back turns out to be a major trend change? This system did not tell me when the market is trending or the market is choppy? Just from the flip and cut and pull-back is not enough for me to be sure that the market will be trending the next few bars? Do you have any proof that this system provide the choppy/trending information, so I can avoid trade this system in a deadly choppy market? Also, the second point, does the evaluation of the pull-back and the trigger (your step 6 & 7) give me any edge when trading? Does these two steps show me with confidence that the pull-back will be successful or will fail miserably if the pull-back turns out to a trend reversal? Where is the edge comparing to other similar trend-following pull back system./ I just don't see it. Again, I will stop duscussing this sytem and try to just sit tight and stydy all the chart setups to be posted on this thread and try to find out myself the edge of this system? How does this system avoid the deadly choppy/false signals in real-time. Not in hind=-sight. Hopefully, I believe in less than a week, I will find the answer from your chart setup posts. I could be completely wrong that this system may just give an edge on avoiding the deadly choppy/false entries. If that's the case, we will all be happy and make some huge pips in the future. PEACE... I will watch, study and see. Edited May 12, 2011 by kerberos007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David1713006337 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) ================================= Hi Freakgib, Yes, I do know the steps. Thanks anyway. However, my question is where is the edge of this system? The STAR System in whole is the edge, not a specific part of the system. It is a combination of many things in whole that makes this system work as well as it does. If you want to avoid the choppy markets, look at lower (faster movement) time frames. When you learn the forex and understand it better, you'll realize that big movements occur after a choppy market and smaller time frames will give you heads up on those movements. Hint: As you learn how to trade the forex market, you will find out that there is no such indicator nor system that will tell you when the market is about to chop or break out in advance. There will never be one... if one did exist, we would all be billionaires. With this in mind, no need to continuously inquire as to how to know about when the market is going to chop or break out or about an edge. You need to read the postings and study charts more and posts questions relevant to the system. Edited May 11, 2011 by David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxnizar Posted May 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) what about my post? chart? muttha? retry? freak?david? http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/fxnizar1/gbpaudh4new.gif Edited May 11, 2011 by fxnizar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0UNDE Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) what about my post? chart? muttha? retry? freak?david? http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa393/fxnizar1/gbpaudh4new.gif This chart it's a little confuse to me. All I can tell you is that the primary stage doesn't end until the flip happen, and I can't see any flip in your chart (not even with the x0.5 template). Where is the 68 golden MA?. You need it in order to find valid flips. Regards Edited May 11, 2011 by C0UNDE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxnizar Posted May 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) i dont have that golden ma indi. Audusd h4 ? Edited May 11, 2011 by fxnizar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
precision_trader Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) This chart it's a little confuse to me. All I can tell you is that the primary stage doesn't end until the flip happen, and I can't see any flip in your chart (not even with the x0.5 template). Where is the 68 golden MA?. You need it in order to find valid flips. Regards =================================== Can somebody come out and try to clarify the above "confused" members about a true "flip"? What exactly constitute a real "flip"? Anybody would try to give it a shot? I am still waiting and try to learn from those who have successfully traded this system and make money to explain and clarify what a true "flip" is? As I said before, I will sit tight and watch and learn. Now it is your chance to teach me and these two confused members, so I can determine if this system truly has an advantage and an edge to trade live. Thanks and regards... PEACE !!! Edited May 11, 2011 by kerberos007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadesworld Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) There is no reason to get bent out of shape kerberos first counde is not confused he just didnt finish the statement. All of the MA's have to be countertrend of the gold 68, that is your flip. If you have the video start to watch at 8 minutes and Tom will explain it there. And David is just defending a system that he feels passionate about and chooses to protect it and the people that feel the same. I also have a connection with this system, it's kinda like you yourself said, "find a system that matches your personality" and this one does for some of us. But obviously not yourself. So please be kind enough and show some respect to everyone on this thread by choosing to let it go and move on so the rest of us can continue in earnest or commit yourself here by supporting others and posting positive and constructive comments. I am not trying to step on your toes but I am serious about learning this system. I am sure that others that do not feel comfortable with this system can make up their own mind as to pursue it or not.....Thank you. Edited May 11, 2011 by wades-world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David1713006337 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) Kerberous007.....I noticed that your are not answering my question about the MA System that is making traders millionaires over the weekend. You state it exists, so again, where is it? Hint: All of your questions have been already been answered in the material and videos. If everyone can do the homework, you should too. Let's ask questions that are not covered in the material. As with your statement: "As I said before, I will sit tight and watch and learn".... I guess that's not working out too well for you here, is it? Please post responsibly and allow this thread to get back on track with the learning process. This is the most important thread on this forum and it's in the development stage right now and we need to cease the nonsense if you don't mind. Traders want to learn this system and believe it can work and you are not helping us out here as you could be doing. Edited May 11, 2011 by David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retry99 Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Kerber, this is not a trend following pullback system. You are not looking to rejoin the trend at a pullback. It is a reversal system which tells you the reversal is there or not and then where to get in if it is a reversal. The MA's are not used to identify trends at all. They are used to identify traits so the lag is not an issue. This trait identification is everything. If you don't have a complete set you are still looking for one. Therefore chop is not going to fool the system and neither is the long trend. Fxnizar, Your Gbp/Aud 4hour has no flip as Counde says. You do appear to be missing the indicator for the gold sma. Here is the approach to take. You find a mp that you want to work with and call up the template which gets you 1 flip after that mp. The flip is defined as the changing of direction of the thicker sma. Therefore the pivot you showed at the high in mid-March shows only the gold sma going down unaltered at 4 hour. There is no flip. If there was a flip all the thick sma would have had to get on the upper side of the gold and the gold would need to turn up at least 1 pip. (sometimes the thick sma will line up with the gold at the same pip value and this is just as good as if it had become on the counter trend side of gold). So on 4hour you would not want to use that March high as your mp currently because it is not even in the 2nd stage yet. You would search backwards to see what is further but at present the 4hour has more than 1 flip using previous mp. That means you would take things faster. The 2hour has a prime stage, 1 flip and a 2nd stage and a cut. Then the move after cut had not steepened and instead made a new flip before getting to be a good move after cut. If you used the new tools on the forum you could have still gotten a trade on the May 3rd to 5th strong bounce. I did not see this trade myself. It used the 52s trait tool instead of the 13-68. It would have triggered on 1hour .236 at 1.5181 and the most you would have gotten for the 2nd batch was 336 pips but more likely around 240 pips using the exit strategy for these CSA trades and a trailing stop. That plus the 60 pips from the first batch on the trigger to the pullback extreme and the 3rd batch would have possibly been a stop at break even. The 2 hour 13-68 would not have given anything since as I said that bounce caused a 2nd flip. The 52s evaluation was a continuation signal and it did end up going lower on the original trend from March high. I did not look it over but there might have been a faster yet setup on the bounce going up from the May 3rd low as a mp to take the ride back down again. Sometimes those back end of CSA are not great for setups but you would have had about 300 pips banked to use some of them as risk if you wanted to use the trailing stop as a sign to grab a spot. C0UNDE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
precision_trader Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) Kerber, this is not a trend following pullback system. You are not looking to rejoin the trend at a pullback. It is a reversal system which tells you the reversal is there or not and then where to get in if it is a reversal. The MA's are not used to identify trends at all. They are used to identify traits so the lag is not an issue. This trait identification is everything. If you don't have a complete set you are still looking for one. Therefore chop is not going to fool the system and neither is the long trend. ==================================================== Hi Retry99, Great. Thanks for the explanation. From my understanding so far, this system basically is a trend-following system. It all depends how you define the trend. It looks to me that this system is looking for the "FIRST" Retracement of a established reversed trend. In other word, it is looking for the start of a wave 3 in the Elliot wave terminology. I know this system used different terminologies, but basically it uses the MA Flip, Cut, and Retrace to confirm the reversal trend and looking for a first higher-low pull-back in an over-sold market and then enter LONG at the first confirmed right shoulder (in a reversed Head-and-Shoulder) terminology). or simply to say it will enter LONG at the first retracement or a confirmed reversal up trend. Likewise, in an extremely over-bought market, it is looking for a confirmed reversal trend (down-trend) with MA cross-over, flip, cut, and retrace to identify the first retracement in the confirmed down-trend. Basically, it is looking for the first Lower-High of a reversal down-trend, and enter at the first retracement of the confirmed down-trend. From Elliot wave point of view, it is looking for an entry at the beginning of wave-3 of a 5-wave pattern; wave 3 usually is the longest wave. So, based on my above definition, this system is a trend-following system. An counter trend system or a reversal system is a system that tries to pick the exact top and bottom without waiting for the retracement confirmation (Lower High or Higher-Low, or Head and shoulder or reverse Head and Shoulder). In other word, a true reversal (or counter-trend) system is trying to find the exact wave 1 of a wave 5 pattern. A trend-following system is a system trying to enter at the start of a wave 3 or a wave 5 right after a corrective retracement whether it be after a A-B-C corrective retracement wave or a A-B-C-D-E complex (or a overlap corrective wave) corrective retracement wave. Also, for those of you traded the famous 1-2-3 pattern, this system in a simple term almost perfected the 1-2-3 pattern recognition with MA cross-overs, flips, cuts, double cuts, and retracement, and the move after the retracements, and finally the entry trigger. Basically, it pinpoint the entry point at point 3 of an 1-2-3 pattern right after a confirmed trend reversal. Thanks again Retry99. This is a good discussion. Please let me know if I am way off the base for the below points: 1. First retracement of a confirmed reversal trend. 2. First Higher-Low or Lower High in a confirmed reversed trend. 3. Finding the right shoulder of a Head and Shoulder or reverse Head and Shoulder pattern and enter at the right shoulder break. 4. Enter at the start of a wave 3 of a five wave pattern. 5. finding the point 3 of a confirmed 1-2-3 reversal pattern. Thanks and Regards. PEACE. Edited May 12, 2011 by kerberos007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retry99 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Yes you are off about almost all of that. The system does not wait for any confirmation of a reversal. It does not make an entry at a particular wave and can take entries at many different ones depending on the formation. It makes the entry at one of the early retracements of a reversal, not at a pullback off the running trend. If you want to define the terms differently you may but since it is called Super Trades At Retrace then that is the terminology that is used in the system. Like your comparison to elliott wavers that cannot agree I would not hope to necessarily find agreement on whether a pullback or retracement are different or the same depending on the person I was talking to. This is definitely not a trend following system by the most commonly used terminology in trading. That would imply that you were looking to enter at the end of a correction to rejoin an existing and VERY well established trend, not a risky (to trend followers) wave 2 ending (start of wave 3 as you put it). Trend followers would still be betting on the former trend's continuance at that early stage. Since this system is taking an early retracement, possibly the first one after an unconfirmed new trend it is by definition a reversal system regardless of the exact pinpoint of the new trend's starting place. You evidently have not seen enough reversals using this system's particular technique but instead are theorizing it or you would have seen that there are many different patterns in which it catches the trigger and matches the market's variability, not some 123 pattern which is typically rigid. Patterns and other such things are only going to work some of the time. Some traders didn't get the memo that head and shoulders, candlestick patterns, support and resistance, fibonacci retracements and the whole bunch of that stuff will leave you wondering what happened when the market plows through or fails to reach your expectations (most of the time on any particular rigid set - and go ahead and try being 'flexible'). In any case it seems you may have a mistaken idea of the steps although you stated that you do know the steps in an earlier post. I say this based on your statement, "basically it uses the MA Flip, Cut, and Retrace to confirm the reversal trend and looking for a first higher-low pull-back in an over-sold market". Using your terminology that a STAR's "retracement" is a first higher-low pull-back rather than what the system actually calls it you have still made the statement that the system confirmed the reversal by the former trend's traits which it does not do and you have not included those traits in the proper order. I am thinking that there may be some point on which you are not up to speed but are not aware of it. The experience you obviously have tells me that this would probably be your kind of system but you tried to look past the step by step and look for that edge you refer to. The edge is simply how damn precise this thing is combined with early entry with low drawdown. You can't say any more in favor of it than those. If you wish to post a setup it would be possible to spot any trouble and set it right. precision_trader 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
precision_trader Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) It does not make an entry at a particular wave and can take entries at many different ones depending on the formation. *************It makes the entry at one of the early retracements of a reversal, not at a pullback off the running trend. ********************* . ========================================= Hi Retry, you said: *************It makes the entry at one of the early retracements of a reversal, not at a pullback off the running trend. *********************. This is exactly what I meant. My definition of a first "Pull-Back" of a confirmed reversal trend is exactly the same as your "early retracement of a reversal. I used "pull-back" and "retracement" interchangeably in all context. Pull-back is retracement, and retracement is pull-back in my definition. Sorry if I did not make that clear in my post. Also, I never mentioned that the SMART system is looking for a pull-back in a "running trend". Please reread my entire post if you can find the work "running trend", a running trend would not be the "start" of the wave 3 of a 5-wave pattern. Also a "running trend" would not be the point 3 of a 1-2-3 reversal pattern. All I said throughout my post is that the SMART system is trying to find the FIRST retracement or (pull-back) in a reversal trend, and enter the trade as early as possible. Thanks and Regards, PEACE. Edited May 12, 2011 by kerberos007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
precision_trader Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) I have re-edited all of my previous posts replacing the word "pull-back" with the word "retracement", which in my definition, means the same thing. Please educate us if they have different meanings in the context of Technical Analysis in trading. Since I got really confused by the terminology used in SMART system, I tried very hard to relate the SMART system to one of my familiar systems. That is the only purpose of the post. Not a word about "criticism" about the system in that post. Now, I have an anonymous God/Angel behind my back and trying to guide me step by step through the terminology of the SMART system with explanations and pictures. I am sure I will master the terminology of the SMART system and relate these esoteric SMART terminology with the familiar popular Technical analysis terminologies. Thanks to that Anonymous God/Angel for the anonymous help without reservation or defensiveness. Thanks and Regards, PEACE Edited May 12, 2011 by kerberos007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retry99 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I thought that you might have been using these interchangeably and that is why I said that you may go ahead and do that but if we are going to discuss STAR setups we should stick to the terms as used in the book and system techniques don't you think? I read your posts thoroughly the first time, no need to reread them whether you have changed them or not. I am of the mind that it would be best to avoid confusion by defining terms. It is a mechanical system so only steps and criteria apply. There is no need to compare the system to another because there simply is no other system the least like it on the planet. I have gone through the TA spectrum as it sounds like you have. IMO if one has that kind of experience and thinks this system is like any other it tells me they have definitely not come to the right understanding of STAR. That is not finding any fault just the facts as I see them. The area we would apply those 'interchangeable' terms is the evaluation and potential signal trigger. We should now call out the (STAR) terms in order. From a trend extreme (after having established a full trait set exists) the first thing we get is a pullback which must go past the dark green thick sma. Then we would have a retracement from a pullback extreme. Then we will decide if the pullback evaluation can still be performed at the same timeframe and template combination using the force index. Then come the pullback evaluation and resulting signal and so on. So it does matter in a manual system that terminology be defined if discussing it with others. precision_trader 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
precision_trader Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Hi Retry99, Understood. Thanks for the explanation. It really helps. I will stick to the definitions of the STAR system from now on for any on-going discussion of the STAR system on this thread if any. I fully understand that for an established STAR trader, they like to see the terminologies that are defined in STAR not other similar terminologies. My try of using similar terminologies is just try to understand the STAR system better with no other meaning. Thanks to a real trader of the STAR system. By the way, the anonymous God/Angel that was referred to in my previous posts is also a master of STAR trader, just like Retry99, who even showed me a couple of setups/signals that STAR system generated that he entered in the very early hours of the Europe session, and unfortunately my system did not alert me the trigger at the early stage, so I did not enter. Man, these two signals/entries that were generated by STAR system and entered by my God/Angel produced massive pips the last time I checked. Wow !! Truly a great testimonies of a great system. I guess I have found the true edge of this system: which is you enter at the very early stage of a retracement in a reversal with an "extremely low Stop Loss" level, and the reward will be massive, that makes this system a very low risk and extremely high reward system, because this system uses the multiple time-frame for confirmation, making an entry at an extremely low stop loss level. That is the edge of the system. Thanks my God/Angel and Retry99 for the education and enlightenment. Thanks and Regards. PEACE !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retry99 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) because this system uses the multiple time-frame for confirmation, Just want to point out that the idea of confirmation is not appropriate as normally used. When you take the 1st retracement of a brand new trend there can be no confirmation as you do not know if the former trend will continue (no higher highs etc) and the prevailing sentiment in the market at that point will be that it would continue. You take the signal trigger based upon nothing but the STAR system's say so. Also when you include the idea of "multiple time-frame for confirmation" then you would likely be indicating to others that STAR is using one of the traditional approaches of TA, combining chart views across a certain set of timeframes with a rigid analysis as is commonly done. Once again this is not at all what STAR does. You may have a 15 minute setup from mp to trigger and never leave that timeframe. STAR is dynamic where the timeframe is going to change as the market does but it may also stay the same, it is just in tune as the market dictates. Edited May 12, 2011 by retry99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.