Freddie Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 FX4ever has a thread using EAs that seems to work well. Manu has popped up saying that he trades the grid manually and successfully. chrisbenjy says: I think grid trading (GT) and things like that, e.g. martingale (MT) can be useful if they are not your primary trading tool. I thought that this was just what I wanted, a secondary trading system....So...Who will tell me how to start? freddy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Manu has suggested how to start. I have stolen his words from another thread: "...meanwhile why don't you do this: Eur/usd has started possible Bulls again and I think coming 2-3 days we will see Bull close candles. Now on a demo account start Buying after every 25 pips. means after every 25 pips you will open a new Buy Order. I have been buying from 3610, the price right now is 3637. two Buy postions are open 3610 an 3630. ( I do not use 1,1-1,1) format...I prefer 6-4 ( means for every 6 buys we open 4 sells at same level). This makes things easy when market moves opposite or retraces. You have plenty of chances to come out at BE. so just try this on demo..spend few days.. You will discover many new things. new challanges, new problems and most Important New Opportunity." Thank you Manu, I have set my chart using a 'grid maker' indi. Had a difficult time setting up the pending order so I will probably use the 'Easy' EA for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu1713006157 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 what is the EA you want to use. Is there an EA or script which could open say 6 buy orders and 4 sell orders (with predefined tps and stops). with predefined Lots. Please Let me know. and Yes setting up those pending orders are really difficult. If stops for 1 order is hit... I place a pending order at same level.. and belive me Its more difficult. so any EA or script would be a great help which simply place those trades on defined levels thanks Frederick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 what is the EA you want to use. The EA is called Easy but can only use Buy Stop or Sell Stop. I will see what the latest edition does. Is there an EA or script which could open say 6 buy orders and 4 sell orders (with predefined tps and stops). with predefined Lots. I am intending to use .01 Lots so would .06 buy and .04 sell be OK? Please Let me know. I seem to remember something that would do three at a time. I will look further. and Yes setting up those pending orders are really difficult. If stops for 1 order is hit... I place a pending order at same level.. and belive me Its more difficult. so any EA or script would be a great help which simply place those trades on defined levels thanks Frederick I have looked at today's €$ and I would have had three buys and three sells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu1713006157 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Is there an EA or script which could open say 6 buy orders and 4 sell orders (with predefined tps and stops). with predefined Lots. I am intending to use .01 Lots so would .06 buy and .04 sell be OK? I know it means the same thing. But then opening 0.01 x6 positions. and not simply 0.06 x 1 position. has a purpose. when you will work on the whole thing.. You will find that during an advert condition all you have to manage your topmost position. the previous positions could be simply placed at BE. and it keeps you out of worry. then again all those 3 or 4 sells which which you have opened simultinously gives you Losses when you closed them (don't they) [ Its simply a matter where you close them.. have a look at this: ] 1.3650- Buys [0.01 x 6] Sells [0.01 x 4 ] ----- closed at 1.3675. thats 4 x 25 = -100 pips Loss. 1.3675 - Buys [0.01 x 6] Sells [0.01 x 4 ] ----- closed at 1.3700, another -100 So you can see that you have been booking Losses at every level. so this is why I need 6 position insted of simply 1. have a Look here 1. Buy @ 3650- tp: 3700 i.e. +50 2. Buy @ 3650 tp: 3725 i.e. +75 3. Buy @ 3650- tp: 3750 i.e. +100 4. Buy @ 3650- tp: 3775 i.e. +125 5. Buy @ 3650- tp: 3800 i.e. +150 6. Buy @ 3650- tp: none ( this will Runn) So did you get the Idea. why we need multiple Orders. we Lose -100 (from sells) for every level But we are making +500 pips from every Level, and yes 1 is left to Runn till end.. which is our main trade. Did you feel It. and once the trade flies you know what will happen. at every level you will be booking profits worth +400 pips , How ? because you will be closing 4th postion of 3650, then maybe 3rd postion of 3675, and then 2nd postion of 3650. whch is summing up at every Level. Think about this. How much of extraordinary edge It Gives. You need to do this Once before you understand what I mean. now why we need 4 sells at every level. Of coz.. to manage the risk. I have already said that the lower position is simply put at BE. so no worry about them. Only the topmost postion can make you Losses. and that too only on 1 condition. If market retraces to 1 Level down and then get back ( ex- a dip from 3675 to 3650, and then back to 3675 again.) hey wait a minute: "Losses" I don't Like this word, let kill it. Ok. why you want to kill the Losses. You are already scoring +400 pips gain on every level (If trend resumes enough) what you are going to do with that ?? As I told you only way to lose is If If market retraces to 1 Level down and then get back well what if it gets to 3625 ? i.e. 2 level down. ____well then let me say.. why we have those sells orders (Am I a very big fool who is willing paying -100 pips for every level) of coz not there is a purpose. I won't write this part now (maybe later). But If it goes 2 Level down.. there is a mean to come out at break even. while the earlier postions will be kept running 9with stops managed). and once the market resumes in main direction.. start all again. --- there are also few variation of this whole thing... personally I donot like to end up my 2nd last postion simply at BE. market retrace 25 pips and you close it on BE. what the Hell... often it flies back and you have no position there because you have already closed. this happens often and I don't like this. yeah, so we need a little twist or adjustment.. (don't want to talk about this now).. ok .. now please try to find the script which can do this.. Placing my multiples trades....It would be easy.. If I could find a script... then I will try doing this at every 10- pip Interval. imagine what can happen then. take care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Thanks for that lesson. I will need to spend time taking it all in. In the meantime I have recorded what would have happened if I had been able to trade the Euro/Dollar through yesterday and into today. Simply take profit at 25 pips and buy a new pair of trades. http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/freddieforII/8902.gif Edited February 9, 2011 by Freddie Chart freddy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) The results for the last two days give an overall loss of 70 pips, -595 in sells waiting for the price to come down again. Edited February 10, 2011 by Freddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Thanks Freddie for opening this thread. I must say, I don't understand yet the mechanism used by Manu. I think he did not tell (at the moment) all the reasoning behind, and he might accomplish in a different manner, what you have tried to do. It is very interesting and I hope Manu will explain step by step the procedure! Our poor old brains are at risk of explosion! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel 10 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Seems interesting, but I believe his method not able to be done by me as I live in the US so no hedging... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Thanks Freddie for opening this thread. I must say, I don't understand yet the mechanism used by Manu. I think he did not tell (at the moment) all the reasoning behind, and he might accomplish in a different manner, what you have tried to do. It is very interesting and I hope Manu will explain step by step the procedure! Our poor old brains are at risk of explosion! ;) I have asked Manu to wait for me to assimilate what he has already given me. Using only 1 Buy and 1 Sell at a time, taking profit at 25 pip and leaving the losses to just accumulate. Today price has moved down by 75 pips making some of my 100 pip losses only 25. I will do the new calculation tomorrow to show you. freddy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Seems interesting, but I believe his method not able to be done by me as I live in the US so no hedging... I did read some time ago that you could have two accounts, one for buys one for sells. I wonder if this would be breaking your laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Forgot to put up yesterday's chart. http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/freddieforII/0902.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just done a quick tot-up and with the current price ataround 1.625 all the sell losses have made the 25 pip TP New buy trades are making 250 loss but the closed trades are at 750 pips so a realised profit of 500 pips in three days. Manu works on six buys and four sells so that we make 150 pips at each upward grid bit only lose 100 at each downward grid. I am still digesting that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu1713006157 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Dear Frederick, I could see You working On this, You are Giving your time to this whole thing. So I will surely give you my Time. well You have been using 1B- 1s format. taking profit on 25 and leavig the Losses. what is this ? this is surefire way to bust yourself. I understand that you are using 1 variation (out of 500) of grid trading. But let me make your Job Little easier by telling you right here that this is not the way to do it. (see I have saved a lot of time of Yours) ok personally I have made a lot of formats giving different structure of profits and risk coverage oppertunity. I understand that working with [6-4] formats or [10-15] would be complicated as startting. so I would suggest you work with 2b-2s. it will be more easy and risks could be little more effectively. have a look at this. suppose You think the trend has started going down. and there could be a possibe 120-150 pips more down.. Its useless to get in trades If there is no Long move coming. To make an account double You need a possible 150 pips move in any direction. what If price donot move exactly at 150 pips and turned back say, after making 100 pips. well I would say You simply loose your time. Your priority in this case would be to come out at break even.. or you ca book little profit. and the try next time again. however this is my personal thing..... I donot settle anything less than 200%. whe I starts my trade. either 200% or nothing... because we always have another day. ok Lets have a Look at this how 2-2 format.. how it can be used. at 3650 b1- 1.3650 stop: 1.3625 tp: 1.3700 (I will explain you why we need tp for Buys) b2- 1.3650 stop: 1.3625 tp: 1.3700 s1- 1.3650 stop 1.3675 tp: 1.3600 s2- 1.3650 stop 1.3675 tp: none at 3625 --- Status: Booked Loss -50 pips (from two Buys at 1.3650) [closed] we also have profits form sells But Floating right now. newOrders b1- 1.3625 stop: 1.3650 tp: 1.3675 b2- 1.3625 stop: 1.3650 tp: 1.3675 s1- 1.3625 stop: 1.3650 tp: 1.3575 s2- 1.3625 stop: 1.3650 tp: none at 1.3600 Status: Booked Loss - 100 pips (buys from 3650,3625) [closed] Booked profit : + 50 pips ( 1 sell from 1.3650) [closed] Floating profits +[75] they are floating right now, so lets not count them. Orders b1- 1.3600 stop: 1.3575 tp: 1.3650 b2- 1.3600 stop: 1.3575 tp: 1.3650 s1- 1.3600 stop: 1.3625 tp: 1.3550 s2- 1.3625 stop: 1.3625 tp: none at 1.3575 status: Booked Loss - 150 ( buys from 3650,3625,3600) Booked profit +100 ( sells from 3650, 3625) floating profit: +150 ( sells (1) of 3650,3625,3675 ) orders: b1- 1.3575 stop: 1.3600 tp: 1.3625 b2- 1.3575 stop: 1.3600 tp: 1.3625 s1- 1.3575 stop: 1.3600 tp: 1.3525 s2- 1.3575 stop: 1.3600 tp: none at 3550 Booked Losses -200 Booked profit +150 floating profit +250(100,75,50,25) new Orders: as In sequence above: Ok so It can be seen that after we cross 2-levels ( I'm assuming 25 pips for a level) we are making profit of +50 everytime,(from 1 sell) i.e. 50 pips it reaches a new level, and same time we are Loosing -50.( from 2 Buys i.e. 25 pips each). So what you are doing is summing up your Losses with equal amout of gains , and we have also left 1 positions (sell in this case) to ride on.. which is again summing up and giving us floating profits. [please note: If you have say 5 positions running, every 1 pip is giving you 5 pips] hence If we consider that we have 5 sells running (from 3650--to 3525). and if price goes 25 pips (our 1 level) in favour..we are scoring 25 X 5 = 125 pips from that 25 pips. [this is when magic starts] Ok I think its enough for now... Life is not so sweet and we don't Live in a perfect world. So don't forget that price can move in another direction too. next I will post how to manage the Losses. remember I have mentioned those Bolds. Our Buy tp of 50 each. They are not for decorative purpose. they are used to close this at Break even. Its very easy to close the first level when there is a retrace of 25 pips( our 1 level) say, we have two buys at 3600, and two sells at 3600. price moves 1.3625( 1 level retrace) we could easily close this buys and sells and we can put our earlier sells (sells at 3625) at Break even and close it... [note: the positions of all earlier sells have been placed at Break even already, or maybe 10 pips locked profit whatever] You know what I mean. But I donot Like closing after just 1 level retrace. Lot of time market will retrace for 25 pips and then will resume the main trend. and you are left out. because you have no position running. thats a Missed level. and I donot like this. personally I want market to retrace atleast 2 levels (50 pips) and then If it does I close my latest 2- positions. this is when we need Buy Tp: . It manages the lossess and get you out of breakeven. More on this Later.. please note: we close only 2 levels.. but what to do with those earlier positions which are still open and are in floating profit. say ( say we have (1-sell) postion running from : [3650,3625,3600,3575,3550,3525,3500 ] Last price was 3500 (also our last position) , now market retraced for 50 pips. we closed our 2,sells(1.3500) ,2sells (1.3525) 1 sell (1.3550, closed at BE) gradually and we close out 2 buys (3500) at 3550. just take care to close your last positions at 25, 25 pips loss. and then the second last (3525) at 25,25 each. the profit of those 2-buys (3500) will make the equal amout of pips gain what you will Loose from these sells. after these sells are closed... place a pending orders once again with same number of sells and buys and same stops and tp, repeat the process once again..If trend resumes..you are back again. now we closed these last and second last levels at Breakeven.... what to do with those remaining sells ( we still have 3650,3625,3600,3575 ] Running. so what to do with them. Lot of things: -- put everything at breakeven and leave it, -- lock 10 pips gains from each position and leave it. ---at 3550. we can close my 1 sell of 3650 scoring 100 pips , while leaving others at BE. --and Last If you could think some better Idea or new Idea..let me know I'm sorry friend I tried making everything concise..but the post just get larger and Longer. There are few more things which I have not cover, and then its just a variation of a format. [2b-2s], we can make multiple formats. I personally use [6b- 4s], even [4b- 6s] whe market is range bound. however there is only 1 way market can make you Loss if you use [2s-2b] format and thats when market retrace 25 pips, and comes back. (if it gets at 50 pips retrace we are already at BE) and ready to start once again using pendings. I tried a lot to eliminate this condition..But then I couldn't do it. But I'm still testing and thinking. However.. think about how many ways market could make us Loss.. and how we have forced Mr. Market to compensate. "I will Loose But only on my own Terms". Just in a single case. I don't have to worry what to do when market went opposite as soon as I starts, since we have equal buys and sells at every level. market gets 2 level up and I'm out at BE.. what could be better than this. using 6b-4s formats or 10b- 8s formats helps solving this problem.. but partially. Anyways this is not the Hard-rule. we are different Individuals and we have our different brains, emotions and risk-tolerance. I just pointed out a rough structure and you can modify it. Test it, spend time trying this and thinking about this, think about new approches you could add. Make it as our Own. .by adding a few variation or removing a few... because unless you make it as your own... You won't belive in It. I would Like to thank everyBody who care to visit this thread and are Interrested in this. meanwhile doubts,suggestions, complains and compliments are always welcome. If any good people wnat to talk in detail about any specific matter..please let me know.even If you hate me tell me. The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life. (Muhammad Ali) take care: theGambler_isHere: Edited February 10, 2011 by manu missed something freddy, Freddie, copycat and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Another big lesson Manu, thank you. I was beginning to get a feel for the 6:4 idea and was thinking that I might try 1:2 but now I have this one to try. I had also come to the conclusion that the 6:4 was for an uptrend and that probably we would go 4:6 on the down trend. Price is now getting down to 1.3600 at the moment so my first sell is almost at BE. Again, thanks for the lesson, I will need a couple of days to come to terms with it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Thank you Manu, your strategy is very interesting but at the moment gives me a headache! Very painful! I will need more than two days to digest it all. (you are smarter Freddie!) just one question for now: How to determine the spacing (in your example: 25pips), are you using ATR or ADR, or just round numbers, or it does not matter? And the TP is still double spacing, isn't it? freddy P.S. And do not worry Manu, we do not hate you (at least not yet ;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu1713006157 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) The spacing is required.. depends on few things. 1. the trend which is being started should have capacity to carry me for 200 pips... I know we donot have trend which will do this everyday. So, the entry timing becomes important. ------ To find out If the trend could move such distance.. It depends on your technical skills. Use Adx Indicator. If the Adx Line is showing above 25 in 1 Hr, 4Hr. Both... those trends usually will move Long enough to make some decent profit. --- Now If Adx is showing Good sign.. check demarkTD, Indicator. I have been using this for Long time .to Look for the projected Targets. most of time its very accurate. So Its its showing that we have enough room left..get In that trade. Getting in that or any other trade should not be difficult.. As we have a mechanism to come out at BE. If the trend doesn't work. so You Lose only your Time..and not money. Now the spacing, It depends on few things and things which you want. If trend runns for 200 pips. 1. using 25 pips spacing should give you 900 pips Overall. 2. usng 20 pips spacing should give you 1100 pips. 3. using 10 pips spacing should give you 2100 pips. results will not be very similar, as you will have missed entry levels, or accuried losses from case 1. (price moving just 1 level opposite than back) and you loose few pips there. --- so depends on how much active you are, what Lot size you used and what is your risk appetite. personally I trade only Eur/usd... because of the spread Issue. and moderate volatity. and I prefer 20-20 spacing. I tried 10-10 spacing but it get very hectic doing this manually... If someone could compile an script or EA.. for this.. It might have been a great thing. 20-20 spacing is just fine and moderate enough... It gives plenty of time for setup of next entry and to adjust stops etc. generally my trades runn for 2-3 days before my targets are reached. and meanwhile Its not easy to keep Looking at it... so I see a lot of missed levels. (yes I put my stops and other things at right level before I get to sleep) ,I might deleate those pending orders If I'm getting away. If we miss few levels... what is the big deal.. I can still survive with little less profit. ----- 2-3 working and watching is not easy... But Look at the rewards.. If the trdae works out..we can make 100-200% just in few days....if it doesn't work.. we are out at BE. Right now I'm Young, I have plenty of energy.. and I'm ready to devote time to this. "we have plenty of time to Rest in the Graveyard" Edited February 10, 2011 by manu freddy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roels Major Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 BIRD WATCHING IN LION COUNTRY FOREX TRADING EXPLAINED 2010 EDITION (Revised, Updated & Expanded) Dirk du Toit You need to read this book... Very good information about Median Grid... freddy 1 Quote "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 The spacing is required.. depends on few things. ................................... personally I trade only Eur/usd... because of the spread Issue. and moderate volatity. and I prefer 20-20 spacing. I tried 10-10 spacing but it get very hectic doing this manually... If someone could compile an script or EA.. for this.. It might have been a great thing. ........................... Thank you Manu, Very logical (regarding spacing) I don't know what are the softs Freddie found for this strategy, but here is one grid EA I found on the web. Perhaps you can have a look and see if you can tweak parameters to meet your needs. http://www.multiupload.com/G9VS7IR4HK Hope you can find a good setup. Let us know! freddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manu1713006157 Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Thanks for the EA freddy, However It didn't helped me... It simply closed the profits and runns the Losses. I tried looking at its parameter... but couldn't figure our much. But thanks for the help. I tried searching hard for BIRD WATCHING IN LION COUNTRY FOREX TRADING EXPLAINED 2010 EDITION (Revised, Updated & Expanded). but couldn't find it on the web, Not even in this forum. yes I do have the Old edition of this book. But never understood it. Interested in this 2010 editions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Hi Manu, don't ask me anything about these scripts as I am totally ignorant of the subject: Two scripts on this page that might do what you want. ..and if they are any good perhaps you could tell me how to use them!! hxxp://codebase.mql4.c0m/5352 I take it that you know about 'tt for xx and o for 0 in com' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Thanks for the EA freddy... BIRD WATCHING IN LION COUNTRY... Old edition of this book. But never understood it. ... 2010 editions This is reputed to be it Manu: hxxp://rapidshare.c0m/files/351841830/BWLDDT.zip copycat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copycat Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Hi Manu, I'm very interested in your Grid trading method. However, I'm yet to fully understand how you manage the loss trades. Can you kindly point me to some further readings to clear up my mind? Some diagrams or videos will certainly help. One more question about placing the trades. Say we are using 2b/2s method. As we are trying to place pending orders for both buy and sell at the same level say 1.3650. How do you handle the situations that price goes up from below to say (Bid/Ask 1.3648/1.3650) and then immediately pulls back and falls below 1.3625? Would you end up with 2 buys positions at 1.3650 but no sell positions for that level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 I don't see exactly what you are saying but if you draw your 25pip lines and draw the price movement you will see when the price crosses the line you take action. You always do a sell and a buy. Even if you are using 4:6 arrangement - if price is going up then Buy 6 Sell 4. I believe that in the question above you b/s your 2s then as price hits the next lower band you close a sell and buy2 sell 2 again. If price is moving so fast that you are trading at xx50 then drops 25 pips as you are entering the trade then there is nothing that you can do. If you had entered the sells then you would have a 25pip win to cash. If you look at my charts you will not see such a large quick jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think what Copycat is trying to say is: how to handle the spread with pending orders? If you want Buy and Sell order at the same level (eg. 3650) it is necessary that bid price goes up to 3650 for a sell but for buy bid has to go only to 3648. Copycat, is it what you were thinking of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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