REQ: RightLineTrading indies.

Anyone care to educate this latest version that includes template for 8 range chart?

 

http://www.sendspace.com/file/hbtaf6

 

Basic rules:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWwfKNvZODQ

 

Trade room application:

 

Yamantaka,

 

This is a little off topic. Have you taken the free trial to their room? If you have what was your experience with them?

Yes, I took a trial when they were new on the scene and I wasn't impressed. However, it appears as though they may have gotten their act together IF the performance results are to be believed, so I am going to revisit.

Yaman their auto trader is based on a cloud hosted server? They are claiming their auto trader is the "best commercial autotrader ever created".

Yam, when you took the trial did you get to use the indicators on your computer, or where they server side?

 

Yes, I took a trial when they were new on the scene and I wasn't impressed. However, it appears as though they may have gotten their act together IF the performance results are to be believed, so I am going to revisit.

Yam, when you took the trial did you get to use the indicators on your computer, or where they server side?

 

The indicators are not on the server side--I had them on my machine. As far as the auto is concerned, it's a server side signal sender when a trade fires. Basically a black box. I imagine slippage is a major issue in TF, CL, and GC due to latency from their server to your machine, to your broker and then to the exchange.

 

Just for yucks, I calculated the PnL for all the room called trades (not auto) and deducted $5/RT commish and the monthly room fee. The net per contract earned is a bit over $8--less than a tick on the instruments they trade. The reason for that is because they are trading four contracts with a 10 tick stop ($400 risk) and the max gain on those 4 contracts is $300 according to their scale out rules.

Yaman their auto trader is based on a cloud hosted server? They are claiming their auto trader is the "best commercial autotrader ever created".

It's a server side delivery. They can claim anything they want, but of course that one is absurd.

Well, today I witnessed first hand the downfall of this vendors strategy--money management. A negative risk reward ratio led to a $700 loss for the day before slippage and commissions. The negative RR notwithstanding, scaling out is mathematically less profitable than an all in, all out strategy, especially for a scalping method like this one.

 

Trading 4 contracts, the stop is 10 ticks . The first target for 2 contracts is 5 ticks and then the stop moves to entry with the 2nd target for the last 2 contract is 10 ticks. Today, there was 1 first target winner (then stop) and 2 full stop losers.

 

The main setup is a simple ABC formation with an 8 Range chart on pullbacks to the 50 EMA. There is no edge in this simple method as demonstrated in today's live trades. And, of course, the moderator made excuses on how he shouldn't have take the trades because the market was slow and he ALSO blamed the market for his losses. I've seen this movie hundreds of times and it always ends the same. Vendors love to point out their big winners and find reasons in hindsight why the losers didn't work.

 

Their auto trader had a better day winning $100.

 

Bottom line: Save your money rather than subscribe to this stuff.

Well, in fairness I have to mention today was a very good one in the room. 4 winning trades and one loser for a gross total of +$900. The moderator seemed to be in the zone and perhaps yesterday's super slow market was partially to blame for the poor performance. We'll see what the rest of the week brings.

Thanks Yamantaka, appreciate it. Unbiased assessments are very useful, specially nowadays. In hindsight and stating the obvious, yesterday certainly was a hard day for trend following methods, being Monday and all. While today was just the opposite... trends galore specially on trend following markets. Looking forward to your feedback at the end of the week.

Yesterday was a given day to trade half value. IB over night was limited range, and volume was nothing. It was a holiday Monday, and Europe had no trading. Plus, I always trade 1/2 on Mondays and Fridays until range and volume expanded. If you have been trading that should be in your trading rules, at least it works for me.

 

Thanks Yamantaka, appreciate it. Unbiased assessments are very useful, specially nowadays. In hindsight and stating the obvious, yesterday certainly was a hard day for trend following methods, being Monday and all. While today was just the opposite... trends galore specially on trend following markets. Looking forward to your feedback at the end of the week.

Nate- I totally agree- but...

A good trader should be able to trade in any conditions-

The moment I opened my ib in the morning- i saw that the volume so far was very low, second eye opener was the volume right at the open- first minute- was 3500 compared to 16000 on a normal day.

Seeing that and knowing we are still under the Easter weather I took more countertrend trades and cut my targets to only 1-2 points (ES ).

Bottom line- its all written there- the market is telling us al the facts usually AHEAD of time.

Jane

Not a good day.

 

Officially, 3 winners and 3 losers for a net loss of $540, showing the downside of a negative RR. But that's not the real story.

 

The moderator called out a short trade in TF that touched the -10 tick stop (it didn't trade through) before hitting any targets. It then reversed to hit both targets. The moderator claimed it as a winner while many room members said they were stopped out. The moderator acknowledged the price touched the stop but was emphatic that he didn't get stopped out. Interesting isn't it? A few members in the room also claimed they didn't get stopped but I have no way of knowing who's trading live and sim. I can say this, however. I have NEVER had a trade that did not get stopped out--Live or Sim--when the stop price was hit, have you? One member tried to explain that if enough buyers aren't there to fill the orders, the stop won't necessarily get filled for all orders, but that sounds like BS.

 

So, the moderator decided first he would take the trade as a loser, but then changed his mind and scratched the trade for the purposes of the official room performance. And that's where I have a problem. Why? Because I don't know whether the moderator is trading at all. He doesn't show a Dom. But more importantly, if real money members said they took a stop out, the correct thing to do is to also record a stop out for the official trade blotter. In trading, there is no such thing as a mulligan--trades can only get busted if there is a bonafide fill error as proven with an exchange time and sales report. So, here we have a case of the so-called official room track record altered in a way which makes it look better than reality.

 

What's more, the autotrader took a trade in crude exactly at 10:30 upon the release of the inventory report and it too was a loser, but the moderator also decide to not book that one for the record because he forget to turn it off before the report. He went on to say that if he trade was a winner, he wouldn't have booked that either, but that's easier said than done, isn't it?

 

Please chime in on this. I'm interested to her you thoughts on any aspect of this.

Edited April 23, 2014 by yamantaka

Sounds like BS-

Arent you sick and tired from searching for honest software sellers or honest trading rooms ?

I have been following all your posts and I think you are a very smart person - why dont you trust your own judgment and device your own method for trading- I bet you will be much more successful than all these *****s.

jane

Sounds like BS-

Arent you sick and tired from searching for honest software sellers or honest trading rooms ?

I have been following all your posts and I think you are a very smart person - why dont you trust your own judgment and device your own method for trading- I bet you will be much more successful than all these *****s.

jane

 

I do have my own methods of trading and you know them because you posted on the threads, so I'm a bit confused with your statement.

 

As far as my interest in honest trading rooms, it is out of sheer greed for more edge. There are rooms I have been in--not subscribed--that do well but I haven't one that fit's my style. If I do find one, I'd be more than happy to pay a reasonable fee to make a few $000s more a month. To my way of thinking, that's good business and trading is a business for me.

Yam-

No pun intended, I know that you are focusing on your box and no indicators trading which looks very good and promising.

What I meant is that for me its a waste of time to even bother with these trading rooms,

if they were good traders they would trade for themselves of big firms and make much more.

You are constantly at their mercy , not sure if its even worth the effort.

Even though I have a good method which uses very few indicators and almost all leading- I still test most of the available indis - who knows- maybe one will give me something.

In this business even a small edge is important; so basically i do the same- keep searching and looking for more-

NEVER SAY I KNOW IT ALL- keep learning and search for more...

Jane

A bad week for RLT. !9 winners and 16 losers for a -$1820 before commissions.

 

During the week, the moderator was asked what size account was recommended to trade this method--the answer was $6K. Terrible risk reward and trade management rules. Imagine the poor trader who started in cash trading last week only to see his account lose 30% of the equity.

 

What really annoyed me was the excuse making and begging like pleas from the moderator on Friday urging the trial members to sign up anyway and get a discounted deal that expires Sunday night. Pathetic pandering on his part. It's clear as a bell Mark doesn't trade for his own account and makes his money off the backs of newbies.

Do their indicators perform badly or is it their money management that is causing losses?

i.e. Do you think the indicators are worth it?

Thanks yamantaka. I'll be the first one to admit just a week results hardly represent overall system performance but one should always be looking (and I think is more important yet) how these moderators behave under live trading conditions. The proof is in the podding, isn't it? Case in point, pushing up-sales at ending of trial week. Yes, before once-in-lifetime-no-to-be-repeated-this-week-only-special runs out speech, showing a lacking of basic market behavior and trading probabilities are hard tell signs to black ball these guys as just another one of bunch.

Yam-

What I meant is that for me its a waste of time to even bother with these trading rooms,

if they were good traders they would trade for themselves of big firms and make much more.

You are constantly at their mercy , not sure if its even worth the effort.

Even though I have a good method which uses very few indicators and almost all leading- I still test most of the available indis - who knows- maybe one will give me something.

In this business even a small edge is important; so basically i do the same- keep searching and looking for more-

NEVER SAY I KNOW IT ALL- keep learning and search for more...

Jane

 

Couldn't agree more on your points above, Jane!!!!

 

On the trading room comment, how true!! If these people were really successful at trading, why not spend a 100% doing it, instead of wasting valuable time during the trading day to hold hands of newbies and milking their savings dry??!!!

 

On your point of indicators, again right on!! Most of us here are not searching for the "holy grail", BUT searching for that indicator that will give that slight edge/confirmation before you pull the trigger! One must always keep an open mind, and remember that Price Action is King!

 

Thanks Jane!

 

L

Do their indicators perform badly or is it their money management that is causing losses?

i.e. Do you think the indicators are worth it?

I think one indicator out of the whole group is valuable. ABC setup which is basically taking a pullback in a defined trend. Unfortunately, moving averages are used to define the trend and they lag badly. Navi is a better tool to define a pullback. I'm not certain, but Ninjacators may also have an ABC indicator for a mere $90.

 

The money management is also a problem risking 4 ticks to make 3.

 

To answer your second question, the answer is no, the indicators are not worth the price.

I think one indicator out of the whole group is valuable. ABC setup which is basically taking a pullback in a defined trend. Unfortunately, moving averages are used to define the trend and they lag badly. Navi is a better tool to define a pullback.

 

All good points there. Have you tried Apex entries? It seems to do the same in that regard.

 

The money management is also a problem risking 4 ticks to make 3.

 

Right on. To me it just shows lack of confidence on their own methods. I know I might be preaching to the choir here but could someone please explain a valued argument on why on earth would anyone willingly chosen to trade with an inverse RR ratio? Unless you're looking for trouble, that's a lousy gamble at best. Personally, I think looking for certainty over excitement it's the best choice and should be in everybody's radar. Yes, it does make day trading boring, very actually but if you focus on looking for high probability, repeatable trades and when the trade present itself you just need to pick up on size, then rise and repeat.

 

The best advise ever given to me (and I cannot stress this enough) was that most traders looks at the profit side of the equation first and you'll see from the Pros that they always identify and pre-define their risk first, every time! Thinking how much am I willing to test this edge with, to see if it works and what would I do when everything went to hell in a hand-basket. Focus in the risk side of the trade so you can live to trade another day, winning trades will take care of themselves.

 

"Professionals traders knows what the're looking for and know what to do when they see it... Trading is as simple as waiting to something happens and managing your risk until it does." --Mark Douglas

 

Once again thank you for valuable feedback yamantaka, much appreciate it.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Swordfi$h

Were these ever educated? Yam, you are using Right Line MA? Can you share, thanks.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/mvtctv

enjoy guys

 

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ia93zg

 

 

 

http://i61.tinypic.com/2eq8fg5.jpg

Edited May 11, 2014 by gavetso