Jane's Indicator Mantra

[LisaAkira]

Greetings,

 

I'm beginning to understand Jane's (TB) warning mantra on the "holy grail" quest most of us are here on. You are a voice in the wilderness my comrade Jane, a brave voice I might add! Sometimes I sense your frustration, when you spot a newbie heading down that endless dark hole, and you reach out to grab him.

 

We are becoming slaves to indicators and numb to price action. We are in search of a crutch, an easy road, something that will only lead, in the long run, to blowing out your account and indicator addiction!

 

In this camp of indicator illusions, this frantic environment, we have the snake oil salesman salivating and pumping out indicators with exotic names and trading rooms with dreams of untold riches for all that are willing to pay!

 

Lets start investing time and watching our favorite instrument, watching it's price movement, learning it's behaviors. Lets start putting together a plan of action that includes money management, and implementing it without emotion!! People, lets get back to the basics; S/R, price and most important, MONEY MANAGEMENT!

 

With the above being said, I'm trying real hard to follow my own advice. I'm starting to understand what addiction is, and it only enslaves us to the greedy indicator pushers!

 

Peace and arigato.

 

L :)

[Guest gavetso]

i think we have good systems out there prblme is small accounts, no dicipline, gambling trading style

[⭐ timein]

Dude that was very well put your privilege may I say spot on, Cheers! Edited May 1, 2014 by timein

[⭐ timein]

Greetings,

 

I'm beginning to understand Jane's (TB) warning mantra on the "holy grail" quest most of us are here on. You are a voice in the wilderness my comrade Jane, a brave voice I might add! Sometimes I sense your frustration, when you spot a newbie heading down that endless dark hole, and you reach out to grab him.

 

We are becoming slaves to indicators and numb to price action. We are in search of a crutch, an easy road, something that will only lead, in the long run, to blowing out your account and indicator addiction!

 

In this camp of indicator illusions, this frantic environment, we have the snake oil salesman salivating and pumping out indicators with exotic names and trading rooms with dreams of untold riches for all that are willing to pay!

 

Lets start investing time and watching our favorite instrument, watching it's price movement, learning it's behaviors. Lets start putting together a plan of action that includes money management, and implementing it without emotion!! People, lets get back to the basics; S/R, price and most important, MONEY MANAGEMENT!

 

With the above being said, I'm trying real hard to follow my own advice. I'm starting to understand what addiction is, and it only enslaves us to the greedy indicator pushers!

 

Peace and arigato.

Dude that was very well put your privilege may I say spot on, Cheers!

[Traderbeauty]

Thank you Lisa for your kind words.

I am not trying to gain anything here but friendship and support.

1050 Thanks from all of you is a nice warm rewarding for me.

You should not use anything that has a touch of a moving average or is based on history of 14 or more previous bars- this means that this indicator is trying to use OLD and worthless information that might not be true anymore.Just try to imagine yourself driving straight in your car, you hit a curve but you continue to go straight because you were driving that way for the last 10 miles... ; trading is exactly the same- if you are lucky then the road will continue the same way but if you are not then its a gambling and you will crash.

 

HERE IS MY BEST SUGGESTION FOR ALL OF YOU; TAKE 30 MINUTES OF YOUR TIME AND JUST DO THAT.

Just get a renko chart- 2-1 or 4-1 , use the ES or CL , take the chart all the way to the right so you cannot see what is coming. Take all the indicators off and just use the renko bars and signals to enter or exit.

Now start at the beginning of the day, look to the left and decide- do i have a stairstep up or down- lets say up- then every time the market goes down you buy on a green bar- i forgot to add- use keltner and take signals that reached the keltner - if it did not then do not take the signal.

Do not trade of small legs- they are just noise.

As long as the market did not break any support OR CREATED a down zigzag you still buy at every retracement. just scroll the chart- no need for market replay or indicators.

Do the same for the opposite direction-.

IF THE CONDITIONS ARE NOT CLEAR THEN STAY OUT AND DONT ENTER NO MATTER HOW TEMPTING IT IS. there is always next entry.

 

Do that 30 minutes every day- AFTER ONE MONTH YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TRADE A SIMULATOR AND MOST LIKELY WILL WIN EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Try doing the same with CL but you have to be very fast, the stop is being trailed right behind the renko top- bottom.

Give it a try tomorrow and let me know what the results are.

Traderbeauty-Jane

[dennyyusuf]

thanks jane and lisa..well said. It should be in the front of our education in the vast amount of information in trading knowledge..

Regards,

Denny.

[⭐ elishar]

Thank you Lisa for your kind words.

I am not trying to gain anything here but friendship and support.

1050 Thanks from all of you is a nice warm rewarding for me.

You should not use anything that has a touch of a moving average or is based on history of 14 or more previous bars- this means that this indicator is trying to use OLD and worthless information that might not be true anymore.Just try to imagine yourself driving straight in your car, you hit a curve but you continue to go straight because you were driving that way for the last 10 miles... ; trading is exactly the same- if you are lucky then the road will continue the same way but if you are not then its a gambling and you will crash.

 

HERE IS MY BEST SUGGESTION FOR ALL OF YOU; TAKE 30 MINUTES OF YOUR TIME AND JUST DO THAT.

Just get a renko chart- 2-1 or 4-1 , use the ES or CL , take the chart all the way to the right so you cannot see what is coming. Take all the indicators off and just use the renko bars and signals to enter or exit.

Now start at the beginning of the day, look to the left and decide- do i have a stairstep up or down- lets say up- then every time the market goes down you buy on a green bar- i forgot to add- use keltner and take signals that reached the keltner - if it did not then do not take the signal.

Do not trade of small legs- they are just noise.

As long as the market did not break any support OR CREATED a down zigzag you still buy at every retracement. just scroll the chart- no need for market replay or indicators.

Do the same for the opposite direction-.

IF THE CONDITIONS ARE NOT CLEAR THEN STAY OUT AND DONT ENTER NO MATTER HOW TEMPTING IT IS. there is always next entry.

 

Do that 30 minutes every day- AFTER ONE MONTH YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TRADE A SIMULATOR AND MOST LIKELY WILL WIN EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Try doing the same with CL but you have to be very fast, the stop is being trailed right behind the renko top- bottom.

Give it a try tomorrow and let me know what the results are.

Traderbeauty-Jane

 

Thank you, Jane! :)

 

Do you enter the market with a limit order, or just market when the signal after a retrace (green bar in uptrend, red bar in downtrend) to enter comes?

[ruten]

Thank you, Jane! Tell please, how we may to use keltner channel (what setups)?

[Traderbeauty]

Elishar-Ruten-

I NEVER enter market - only my stops are- always limit- at least on the ES.

Ruten- i use the keltner- default just as a simple filter to make sure i dont take early entries- so unless we are at a very strong trend- you would do better if you wait for the market to come close or even touch the keltner BEFORE you would consider an entry.

Bottom line- if the market did not touch the keltner- that means that there is a possibility that the market is slow and in chop mode and you should not enter.

Jane

[Spectral_Analyst]

Pure price action without the volume component is like missing a whole dimension of market. Peter Davies in his webinars usually talks about liquidity vacuum, which is a very intuitive way of combining price action to volume. Its just that orders & volume validate the logic of the trade. Jane, could you explain how much significant is volume data in your analysis? I too am a firm disbeliever in indicators or anything derived out of prices.

[Traderbeauty]

Hi Spectral-

I respect all the volume analysis gurus- they are correct , their way of interpreting the map is absolutely true BUT...

Here is my MOTO- i do not trash any trading method out there as long as it can be profitable.

We have the option to chose between many trading methods - now-; which one would you chose ? the one which is complicated and less clear or the simple kiss one ?

In the last year motivated by volume traders in this forum; i listened to numerous mp and volume seminars, read many short pdfs and tried to FORCE myself to use mp and volume analysis.

I have to tell you the naked truth- THE KING IS NAKED :); at least from my prospective.

When you look at an mp map you can see the nodes but then the market is doing what it wants and having a resistance does not mean it will go down from there.

Put on top of that the 7 market behaviors options at the open and you are standing there helpless without knowing what to do.

So here is my MOTO ( repeat lol )-----

When the market hits a strong resistance for example- NO NEED TO GUESS where will it reverse- all i do is i will continue to go long TILL I SEE either a strong divergence or better- a stairstep down pattern.

No need to do a daily, monthly , yearly analysis, just follow the legs and be happy.

True- in some cases the market will bounce of a support or resistance and run fast without even giving you the chance to go in, but these cases are very rare .

As much as i tried i could not get simple , crisp, hard cut rules for mp, volume or tape reading, so i am just sticking with my method.

I will though listen and learn from anyone that can help me simplify any of these methods.

Thanks a lot.

Traderbeauty-Jane

[Wanderer]

True- in some cases the market will bounce of a support or resistance and run fast without even giving you the chance to go in, but these cases are very rare .

 

I call these sucker trades. It is Mr. Market trying to break your discipline and make you chase it. Mr. Market is an expert at exploiting psychological weaknesses. But he always eventually gives up the bounty. He has to. Otherwise no one would play the game. Beware of Mr. Market. Don't let him game you.

 

W

[ruten]

.............................. Edited May 3, 2014 by ruten

[Spectral_Analyst]

Hi Spectral-

I respect all the volume analysis gurus- they are correct , their way of interpreting the map is absolutely true BUT...

Here is my MOTO- i do not trash any trading method out there as long as it can be profitable.

We have the option to chose between many trading methods - now-; which one would you chose ? the one which is complicated and less clear or the simple kiss one ?

In the last year motivated by volume traders in this forum; i listened to numerous mp and volume seminars, read many short pdfs and tried to FORCE myself to use mp and volume analysis.

I have to tell you the naked truth- THE KING IS NAKED :); at least from my prospective.

When you look at an mp map you can see the nodes but then the market is doing what it wants and having a resistance does not mean it will go down from there.

Put on top of that the 7 market behaviors options at the open and you are standing there helpless without knowing what to do.

So here is my MOTO ( repeat lol )-----

When the market hits a strong resistance for example- NO NEED TO GUESS where will it reverse- all i do is i will continue to go long TILL I SEE either a strong divergence or better- a stairstep down pattern.

No need to do a daily, monthly , yearly analysis, just follow the legs and be happy.

True- in some cases the market will bounce of a support or resistance and run fast without even giving you the chance to go in, but these cases are very rare .

As much as i tried i could not get simple , crisp, hard cut rules for mp, volume or tape reading, so i am just sticking with my method.

I will though listen and learn from anyone that can help me simplify any of these methods.

Thanks a lot.

Traderbeauty-Jane

 

Well you wont get simple hard cut rules for MP or Order flow, its a subjective form of analysis where you need to cascade your logic one after the other to arrive at a decision. It is just to understand the Market Structure, not a Buy Sell system. Moreover MP needs too much patience to perfect. By too much i mean, it took me 3 years to get profitable with MP. Books, Videos & Pdf's dont teach you to make money, so simply reading/watching them & applying them to trading is what might have burned you with MP & Tape reading. And if anything makes money, why would anyone talk about it in any book or video, that's suicidal, killing your own edge.

 

But in a way, you are right, whatever makes you money is judiciously the best thing to do in the market. One drawback of this approach is you never know where you stand statistically. Your method keeps changing, entry rules keep getting modified and you never get the right picture of the excursion of the method. You never know, its the noise or the luck or your logic that made money. Its what happened to me in my early days of trading. Anyone who trades for a living should know where his favorable excursion lies, otherwise you bet with fixed stop losses, get caught in volatility traps and thats all gambling. Writing all this flashes memories of days when i would wake up & pray for a profitable trading day. :D

Edited May 2, 2014 by Spectral_Analyst

[Traderbeauty]

Hi Spectral.

I really enjoy reading your posts and sharing your perspective of trading.

You are absolutely correct and and your notes will refer to most of the indicator trading.

Let me detail a bit- lets assume that you purchased one of the many indicators suites or system, they all teach you to follow a certain setup and enter blah blah blah.

Thier biggest mistake is that they ignore ( as you said before ) the big picture-; for example- lets say we have a strong uptrend and we use indicators to get us in while driving blindly without seeing the big picture- suddenly this "wonderful trend" hits a brick wall and reverses without any warning and we are sitting there speechless and upset- and we ask ourselves- how can that be ? we followed all the instructions in the manual and we are still losing... ; sounds familiar :(.

The way i avoid ( most of the times of course ) is by watching what is going on on few timeframe charts- renko specrum 2-1 ; 4-1; 8-2. on top of that i watch much bigger like 12-3 and 360 minutes but these 2 are hidden and i open them only if the market has moved a lot just to see where the next support resistance is hiding.

 

So lets take an example of my method- lets say we have h-h and h-l ; i will wait for a fib retracement and go long only there waiting for a navi signal usually or enter even before.

Now- if the leg is big enough ( 5-8 points) i will watch what is happening at the fib extensions 1.272 and 1.618 and will exit or even reverse to a short and this scenario keeps happening all the time every day.

Doing that; and knowing my target AHEAD OF TIME enabling me to ignore ALL the noise in between.

Once we hit a big picture important previous level i will watch the 2-1 renko to signal a reversal and only if the 2-1 is showing me one- i will enter, otherwise i will continue with the initial direction.

BOTTOM LINE-i am not trying to guess or predict what will the market do- instead- I AM FOLLOWING WHAT THE MARKET IS DOING NOW.

Again- if you thinks its simple, easy, or 100% winning trades you are mistaken. it takes time and experience to read the market and to know its tricks.

The reason why i look for more tools is not because i want to change my method- its because i always look for more confirmation and filtration that will help me avoid bad entries.

My method is easier- less tools, visual ( less headaches lol ) and takes much less time to master- but again- its only my humble opinion.

When i trade I KNOW AND SEE what the market is doing, where it is, what its direction and what is the general direction- and you can easily see all that just by looking at few charts briefly, when i take a trade its always with a lot of confidence and confirmation. i do separate my entries between high and low volume because the market behaves differently -high volume or right at the open- the market goes fast, you need to enter with no hesitation and then just trail taking big profits; low volume - each entry should be at a support or resistance and not by using signals which are delays.

hope it helps

Traderbeauty-Jane