westvleteren Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Dear Fellow traders around the world, I am very curious to see if anyone has a Ninja automated strategy that delivers at least 5 ticks per day on a consistent base. If 5 ticks per day are not feasible by a Ninja automated strategy, then why are so many people busy with automated strategies? I look forward to read the opinions, the sharing of a Ninja automated strategy (good for consistent at least 5 ticks per day with one contract) and experiences of the Indo Investasi traders. I looked at different strategies but found none to be consistent winning - so not even 5 ticks per day consistent winning.......That may be due to me being limited in trading knowledge and experience. Is it possible to have a Ninja strategy delivering a consistent 5 ticks per day with one contract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gavetso Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 2 options 1st if youhave this wwing strat never sell yur own holly reason? idont know humna think sometimes the most valauble things must keep hideen other create dinamic strats the market moves in ranges in trends actually i think is better think in a 2 dai;ly ticks real strat as 5 ticks for index 5 ticks i think is huge for cl is good i keep 2 ticks per index daily withpout stress youcan geta good hedege the trick is put Fuel on it (++++ contracts) then your risk ytour Psicology status is the key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misalto Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Markets change so strategies are a difficult way to daytrade they always break down Keep on seeking your edge in trading you ask for 2 ticks but sometimes you open a trade and never see a tick and you stopped out ,look for an edge is possible to daytrade and win.. or if you cant daytrade swing trade with options what i see you are looking for small gains you can find good trades in stockcharts.com in public chartlists .. just my opinion.:)>- westvleteren 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user33 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 I am very curious to see if anyone has a Ninja automated strategy that delivers at least 5 ticks per day on a consistent base. A strategy like that would cost you millions of dollars, are you so rich? westvleteren 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyevaya Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 What you have to counter in are fills and slippage in live trading conditions. If you are a Cme Member or work at a prop firm you get lower commissions. If you have a Profitable model tested in live conditions a firm can always back you and offer lower commissions.Otherwise why not just swing trade,and work on trading skills and not worry about simple things like that westvleteren 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamantaka Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 To the best of my knowledge, there is no retail product like that. There may be a few systems with a positive expectancy, but none will make 5 ticks every day--there will most certainly be days that lose and have drawdowns. westvleteren 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmark Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 5 ticks, which contract are we talking about? 6E, ES, NQ, ZB? westvleteren 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmark Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) ****************************** Edited April 19, 2014 by bassmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admis Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Casinos have only a few percent of advantage over a clients and they make millions without winning all bets per day. westvleteren 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvleteren Posted January 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Thanks for all your thoughts so far. Currently I am a manual trader and wonder why so many people are dealing with automated strategies. As a side activity besides my manual trading I thought it would be nice to have an automated strategy running (trading still is a lonely activity). My own homegrown strategies (I am just a simple trader/person so no rocket science here) only delivered losses (in SIM). I tried several strategies on Ninja (to be found here on the forum at various places), but all seem just to be designed to empty my account. Perhaps I just do not know how to use a strategie. But if 5 ticks a day on a consistent base is considered to be a huge task for an automated strategie, then I think that for myself I should conclude that there is no automated strategy delivering 5 ticks a day within my reach. On the other hand, various brokers offer automated strategies with nice results (on paper) and for sure many times the 5 ticks a day I am searching for. The 5 ticks can be on any instrument, but prefferably on a major instrument like ES, YM, NQ, TF, 6E, Eurex based or similar. Looking to all wonderfull materials shared here at Indo Investasi, I can only hope there is an automated strategy somewhere which is able to generate a consistent 5 ticks a day. That is e.g. just 1,25 points on ES. Of course there is no trade solution only delivering a 100% profit, but on a daily base and on a consistent base 5 ticks a day should be in reach for an automated solution? There may be days without trades or with just a small loss. But looking at several days, or a week, one should be able to have a consistent average of 5 ticks a day. If my perception is totally wrong here, well then I learned a lot from you and will continue to rely on my manual trading only for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admis Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Dear westvleteren, if I can, do you not wonder why so many people are losing their money? (over 90%) Greed and fear moves the market. Opportunity to earn easy money (as they assume and believe) for many people is irresistible. But the reality is different than their dreams and very sad for many of them. There are many ways to successfully make a business but most of them are certainly not easy nor fast. You wrote: I can only hope there is an automated strategy somewhere which is able to generate a consistent 5 ticks a day. Simply answer is: No, there is not. Try to believe in true words without cheating you: user33: A strategy like that would cost you millions of dollars, are you so rich? yamantaka: To the best of my knowledge, there is no retail product like that. The rest is only a marketing noise of snake oil salesman. P.S. The key word you have used in your question is: a consistent Definition of Snake Oil Salesman: http://www.davemanuel.com/investor-dictionary/snake-oil-salesman/ BTW it is also worth to read: http://www.davemanuel.com/2007/07/16/ten-things-that-you-need-to-know-about-the-stock-market/ and a last phrase: If you know what you are doing and educate yourself, the sky is truly the limit when it comes to investment returns. Edited January 3, 2014 by admis ⭐ moneyshare and westvleteren 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admis Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) You can watch the following videos on how the market was change during last few years and it it still changing. Maybe you and others can understand why the strategies can be worth a milions of $. Can you see any indicators they use? No. What kind of strategies are used in today's market by big players. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAGaReF9LaI What the knowledge and software stands behind them: http://quantitativebrokers.com/learn/ and particularly this video from the above webpage: http://player.vimeo.com/video/15260090 The last one is a practical example of professional point of view on orderflow. I advice you to read and watch the subject on Arbitrage and "The Presence of Implied and Hidden Liquidity". A tough knowledge and that is why most people choose a shortcuts... The open question is: Why order flow is so difficult to read in today's market? Edited January 3, 2014 by admis bassmark, Swordfih, ⭐ flipper26 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvleteren Posted January 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I happen to use order flow via footprint charts but only at the price levels I calculate in my pre-market analysis. If price does not reach the levels I determine in my pre-market analysis, then there is no trade. So I only look to order flow/footprint at certain price levels. I can not compete to what quantative parties are doing at the market and scanning at 100% of the time. I can only rely on what the market is telling me and what I read on the charts. There is no crossing or arrow telling what to do in Market/Volume Profile and order flow/footprint. That makes trading fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmark Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I would look into writing options, passive income vehicles, dividend paying stocks, etc... admis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admis Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I happen to use order flow via footprint charts but only at the price levels I calculate in my pre-market analysis. If price does not reach the levels I determine in my pre-market analysis, then there is no trade. So I only look to order flow/footprint at certain price levels. I can not compete to what quantative parties are doing at the market and scanning at 100% of the time. I can only rely on what the market is telling me and what I read on the charts. There is no crossing or arrow telling what to do in Market/Volume Profile and order flow/footprint. That makes trading fascinating. That sounds fine, but most of traps you can expect on those levels... I forgot to mention, "Implied" orders are not visible on order flow (footprint). Cheers, estabania 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user33 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 That sounds fine, but most of traps you can expect on those levels... I forgot to mention, "Implied" orders are not visible on order flow (footprint). Cheers, What is interesting is this: despite all the complexities of these hidden/implied orders, the manual reading of order flow using footprint still can spot trend, absorption, and reversal of trend, very effectively! I don't know how to explain that, but it is the case, at least for ES. For currencies futures, I found that it is much harder to read the flow using footprint. rodamas, dennyyusuf and estabania 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmark Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 What is interesting is this: despite all the complexities of these hidden/implied orders, the manual reading of order flow using footprint still can spot trend, absorption, and reversal of trend, very effectively! I don't know how to explain that, but it is the case, at least for ES. For currencies futures, I found that it is much harder to read the flow using footprint. Currency futures follow FX Spot, so most of the time there's no order flow there. They just mirror what the spot is doing. estabania 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodamas Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 I happen to use order flow via footprint charts but only at the price levels I calculate in my pre-market analysis. If price does not reach the levels I determine in my pre-market analysis, then there is no trade. So I only look to order flow/footprint at certain price levels. I can not compete to what quantative parties are doing at the market and scanning at 100% of the time. I can only rely on what the market is telling me and what I read on the charts. There is no crossing or arrow telling what to do in Market/Volume Profile and order flow/footprint. That makes trading fascinating. thanks for the above insight.. I am new to order flow and wonder if anyone can help me out on where or how to learn to use order flow at SR levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catspetsdogs Posted September 29, 2014 Report Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) your question shows your limited understanding of markets. "5 ticks" what does it even mean? If you try DAX you won't even be able to beat commissions, because 5 ticks is such a little move compared to how DAX moves a day. On ZB on the other hand 5 ticks is plenty. What you are asking for is a profitable strategy, which unfortunately nobody is going to give you. Did you ever see people on the street giving away money for free? Here, have 100 dollars, and you, here, take the 100 dollars. Holy grail does exist, it can be shared, it can be learned and it can be taught, some form of it can be programmed and work person-free, some stop working, some have been working for as long as markets exist. To save you a lot of head ache, go into your indicator folder and delete MACD, RSI and moving averages and all of that nonsense. The only thing that works is 'feeling' the price and order flow. There, I saved you two years of misery. Edited September 29, 2014 by catspetsdogs Traderbeauty and yamantaka 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradernate Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) Here is a good start to learn orderflow- 2 J@mes D@lton Books: https://www.sendspace.com/file/e783hm Market Profile Guide: https://www.sendspace.com/file/ud9q39 Here's another one from CBOT, this really started it all: https://www.sendspace.com/file/ycmozp thanks for the above insight.. I am new to order flow and wonder if anyone can help me out on where or how to learn to use order flow at SR levels. Edited October 2, 2014 by tradernate Ganymed, Traderbeauty, misalto and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khnco Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 best strategy= your brain+screen time+knowledge There is no shortcut my friend.... you will loose Traderbeauty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradernate Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 @Khnco, without the proper knowledge....your brain and screen time do not mean a lot. Studying the proper market material...helps lead the way to more profitable days vs. account wipeouts. Now if you can find someone who can hand hold you to train properly....that cuts the time. But, most of the time, even with the proper info. we still create our own damage until we slow it down and know how to trade. best strategy= your brain+screen time+knowledge There is no shortcut my friend.... you will loose Traderbeauty and priceless_knowledge 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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