peterfischer Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Hey guys, I received a lot of PM's in the last couple of days and I will start this thread to give you a general idea how the markets work and how you can make money. Most of the stuff I will share is copied from some place else so don't give me credit all I am doing is trying to prevent you from the mistakes I did. I should mention that this is for futures traders only the forex guys should in my opinion focus on breakouts in the Cable or some other market that really moves and should stay away from the Eur/Usd at least in the beginning. The truth: The markets move because there are imbalances between the buyers and sellers, think about it if you have 10 people who are willing to buy your car and you are offering it for 500$ and everybody is interested what is going to happen? Someone will offer you more than that and the person that bids the most will get it. The markets work in the same way it is an auction (the difference is that is a two sided auction) and there is no such thing as more buyers than sellers. There has to be a buyer for each seller and this is exactly the reason why we can make money! All that matters in the end is the bids and offers. No indicators and no other bullshit. The best platform in my opinion is TT's Xtrader and SURPRISE it has very limited charting abilities but it has a very good DOM which shows you exactly what is going on right now. However the guys at Jigsaw have developed a tool which shows you almost the same and which has a few more features which are essential for newbies who want to learn orderflow. If I could start again I would only look at the DOM for at least two month because it shows you exactly why a market moves! You need to focus on the bids and offers, the market orders that hit each level and the volume at price (the contracts which traded at each level to see where the big guys are interested in buying or selling) and believe me you don't need anything else. Just focus on the most common levels (Open, close, yesterday and daily high or low) and see what is happening there. I will try to post some more but please don't rush me my primary focus is to make money everyday and not to educate you guys. I will post some trades etc IF I have the time and if I feel like it. There are many good sites you can check out and I will share them all. In the beginning you should focus on the following: the tape is my shape thread on BigMike http://www.youtube.com/user/NoBSDayTrading http://www.youtube.com/user/jigsawtrading Karado58, groman, ⭐ AndyS and 7 others 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FloridaTrader Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Great post my friend, thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts with the forum group. We need more experienced traders such as yourself on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradernate Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 I am sure we ALL look forward to tape reading.....The thread is all yours....have fun...and go as slow or as fast as you need. peterfischer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 I will, right now I am going to bed because it is 4:26 here and I need to be up at 9 to trade the Eurostoxx. Take care and enjoy it kenlow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
⭐ AndyS Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Hi Peterfischer, On thing I would like to add to your 1st post. look at this website below: http://xxx.advancedtrading.c0m/photos/trading-floors/ It has pictures of the best traders out there. Look at their screens, what do they all have in common-NOT SINGLE INDICATOR, anywhere!!! But that said I have used many indicators and many still help my trading. Guess maybe that's way I am still average! A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Hey Andy, I would not say it like that. Indicators can be helpful!! All I am trying is to explain why a market actually moves and every trader must know that. If somebody is making money with a certain combination then thats good and it can be done. I got rid of most of them but VP,MP, VWAP+TWAP are indicators too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forexmaniac84 Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Those who trade off the DOM solely and no chart at all are all scalper for 1,2 ticks here and there. Not everyone can trade like that. You need to adjust your mental stuff to be able to handle high frequency of lost and scratch trades in a row and in and out trades very quickly with small win and small loss. You have to make a lot of trades during the day and your broker will like you a lot! Some traders are still very successful trading off the chart intraday like FT71 and Ben (the Private Banker). So you gotta choose your style! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Exactly but what does Ben do? He is using the footprints to confirm his entries. And what does Ft71 do he is looking for LVN's and he understands the game as well. All these things are connected and in the end it is all the same. And no you are wrong you don't have to be a pure scalper I use it for entries and exits but I like to hold my trades for some time. Yesterday after the sell off the pullback reached the VPoc and only 7 contracts printed into the offer after that sellers came in and it was a nice short opportunity. However you are right you could just have shorted the vpoc and if thats your style then good for you. I like to see what is actually happening that's why I choose to use the tools I mentioned windo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aenigma Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 G8 Man Looking Forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaube Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Maybe a video will help. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 EXACTLY :):) I will take back what I wrote in the other thread there are serious traders here!! Yeah! Step1. Location——Big picture /Context——> Pinpoint the Potential Confluent Location——>【VP MP VWAP TWAP etc.】 Step2. Entry —— Confirms according to auction ————>【 FootPrint Delta】 Step3. Trade Management (Hold / Exit) —— your style your risk.... tradernate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaube Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 Peter i can't understant what is a test when the buyer or the seller give up. 1000 print @ offer can't go bid in one print so we have a limit sell order matched with a market buy order. How do you know the seller or the buyer gave up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 It depends on what happens next. If a lot of contracts are trading into the offer and it can't go bid this shows somebody is absorbing many contracts. If you get heavy selling afterwards it could be a nice short. If the level breaks the guy who just sold a lot might be in trouble and this would favor a long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 exactly you only can take educated guesses. the beauty lies in the fact that you will know pretty soon if you are right or wrong. I don't take losers anymore that exceed 2 or 3 ticks and it doesn't really get much better than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forexmaniac84 Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 exactly you only can take educated guesses. the beauty lies in the fact that you will know pretty soon if you are right or wrong. I don't take losers anymore that exceed 2 or 3 ticks and it doesn't really get much better than that Peterfischer, Can you teach us how you effectively have only 2-3 tick stop? I think it would be awesome.Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
⭐ AndyS Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 You cannot trade the ES with 2-3 ticks stop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) My main market is the FESX and there you can do it but it can be done in the ES as well if you really pick your trade location carefully. Always remember there are two ways to enter a trade you can wait for confirmation or you can not. If you see a big iceberg for example on a pullback and a big dude is aggressively absorbing many contracts and pushes the market higher than why on earth it is not possible to trade with that little risk? Edit: Yesterday I traded the Es with Kingfutrader and Traderbeauty. Traderbeauty doesn't take more risk than that too she took some losses but finished up on the day. Edited May 11, 2013 by peterfischer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 I just want to make something clear here. I don't want to become a guru or anything else and I am not rich at all and I take many losers as most of us do and I am 100% sure that there are much better traders than me on this forum. The reason why I focused on the orderbook is because I started with a very small futures account and the only chance how a small fish like me can survive is by keeping the risk as low as possible. You heard it a million times keep your losses small and let your winners run. The DOM lets you do that if you take the time that is necessary to learn it and if you have the patience to wait for the right spot to take action ( that is in my opinion the most important part). Everybody who is really interested in learning it should take a step back and not take a trade for a month and just watch what happens at the levels that you would trade. I quickly found out that i get emotionally attached if I take a trade and try to watch the dom at the same time so I sim traded for a month. You will quickly see some things and after you found some setups that really work you can take trades with real money. One more thing this is not my thread at all ad I am not a pro when it comes to orderflow ( I would call myself intermediate) so I would encourage everybody to share their ideas here. The reason why I started this thread is because trading is a lonely road and as a team we can learn more quickly. sheetal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traderbeauty Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 You cannot trade the ES with 2-3 ticks stop! Hi Andys YES you can and that is exactly what i do. The secret is to know when the market is going to generate a move that you believe is going to be at least few points. a simple example will be a big double bottom or top. A more comlicated example will be a fib extension or retracement or an ab=cd moves . all these are working perfectly on the ES and that is exactly why i trade the ES and nothing else. Once I know what to expect I just sit there and once i get a signal normally on a 70 tick chart i go in with a 2 ticks stop and you can confirm that with the two that traded with me for the last 2 days in real time. In some cases when I am 99% sure of the move and the target the i use 3 ticks stop. i would rather get stopped twice with a one point stop than once with a two or more points stop. Jane peterfischer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 And one more thing. If you guys get profitable or already are and you are making money with the Jigsaw tools please buy them. This is the most amazing tool I have ever seen and I am a big fan of Peter who is constantly making them better. I can fully understand if you want to try something before you buy it ( and i am no angel myself) but if it works for you please be so kind and give the man who developed them some credit. In the end we are shooting ourselves in the foot by stealing tools because if the people who develop them can't make money they will simply stop. The beauty of capitalism and the reason why it works contrary to socialism is because people have an incentive to work hard and without those people we would all have nothing. Boyevaya, tryitagainmf and sheetal 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traderbeauty Posted May 11, 2013 Report Share Posted May 11, 2013 Peterfischer- Totally AGREE with you. Once we find a serious and sincere developer unlike many bogus ones we should support him by purchasing and spreading good words. Jane peterfischer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) I just watched the webinar that Peter Davies (Jigsaw) did on BMT. It is very good and EVERYBODY should watch it. I don't know when I will be able to post here again because I got some other things to take care of which are more important than trading. Never forget orderflow is the only true thing in the markets Edit: I wanted to post the youtube link but it seems bigmike only makes some webinars public. I think BMT is a great place to be but he probably (most likely) made more money with the elite memberships than with his own trading. However you get a lot of stuff for the 50 bucks he charges. Edited May 16, 2013 by peterfischer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 One more thing before I am going to bed. I took a screenshot two days ago which shows you exactly what you want to look for when taking a trade based on order flow. I should mention that I did not take it because the market has been too strong and I was scared. The VAH from the day before was at 1628,25 if I remember correctly. See how the buying got absorbed and how agressive selling came in shortly after. http://www.sendspace.com/file/r06u4j tradernate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradernate Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) Peter...what you are talking about is key to any trade....the order flow is the show of value at a specific price point. If you can show a step by step of what we should do to see and understand order flow...it would be very helpful. No one expects to be perfect traders. The turtles has a 28-30% win ratio...but made millions...starting with 50-100K. The key know when to enter based on our specified R/R in our account (no more then 1-2% per trade). If your entry is more then that and your rate is <67% you can only hope to break even. The key is $$ mgt....to your account size, your personality, can you hold...if not you have to scalp (which is the hardest) you have to make quick decisions and they have to be base on repeated instinct....you have to love loses....they protect your account from bad trading. Again the key is understanding price action, in all levels Daily, 60M, 15M and 3M...then know how to read ORDER FLOW and S/R points that the market is giving you. Again, entries should only be when natural market support/resistance...but based with market order flow. Peter is you can use the basics to show us order flow...we would be greatful. Indicators should only be used as a tool for confirmation of trades....not the only reason to trade...the delay or lag with S/R and order flow with kill any account. Peter knows this and most traders who have traded and stayed alive understand and respect this. This really is what Peter is saying...please listen to him...Peter the floor is yours-Nate I just want to make something clear here. I don't want to become a guru or anything else and I am not rich at all and I take many losers as most of us do and I am 100% sure that there are much better traders than me on this forum. The reason why I focused on the orderbook is because I started with a very small futures account and the only chance how a small fish like me can survive is by keeping the risk as low as possible. You heard it a million times keep your losses small and let your winners run. The DOM lets you do that if you take the time that is necessary to learn it and if you have the patience to wait for the right spot to take action ( that is in my opinion the most important part). Everybody who is really interested in learning it should take a step back and not take a trade for a month and just watch what happens at the levels that you would trade. I quickly found out that i get emotionally attached if I take a trade and try to watch the dom at the same time so I sim traded for a month. You will quickly see some things and after you found some setups that really work you can take trades with real money. One more thing this is not my thread at all ad I am not a pro when it comes to orderflow ( I would call myself intermediate) so I would encourage everybody to share their ideas here. The reason why I started this thread is because trading is a lonely road and as a team we can learn more quickly. Edited May 16, 2013 by tradernate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfischer Posted May 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 Thank you Nate!! You are perfectly right. My trading methodology is to first figure out the market structure and then locate some levels to trade of. The vah val yesterday close todays open etc are very very easy to see and they are not some random points in the markets. If you see something you like on the footprints dom or whatever and your risk-reward is fine than go for it. This is all you can ask for. I will post some more if I have the time. Goodnight everybody hope this helps some of you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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