TulipFx

[ryan-isra]

not yet, late november based on the website

 

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6861/tulipfx.png

[tradesafe]

White Paper

 

I see there is now a White Paper and myfxbook link up on TulipFX about the KangarooEA.

 

Looks very promising.

 

http://tulipfx.com/expert-advisor/kangaroo-ea/

[Sneed]

It says "order now". Does that mean we can get it today instead of waiting until the end of the month? Or is it just a "deposit" on a copy?

 

I see there is now a White Paper and myfxbook link up on TulipFX about the KangarooEA.

 

Looks very promising.

 

http://tulipfx.com/expert-advisor/kangaroo-ea/

[Stormin_Norman]

I see there is now a White Paper and myfxbook link up on TulipFX about the KangarooEA.

 

Looks very promising.

 

http://tulipfx.com/expert-advisor/kangaroo-ea/

 

The direct link to the whitepaper (so you don't need to sign up as a free member to get it).

 

http://tulipfx.com/downloads/KangarooEAv3%20Whitepaper%20Nov10.pdf

[⭐ fxknight]

It could be a grid trader. You can see multiple trades closing at the same time in the history. Check the maximum trade duration and maximum total open volume.

 

The open trades are private because he may not want you to see how many trades it can have open at one time.

 

The risk with grid trading strategies is having too much volume open and/or having trades open for too long, which can lead to account stop out ("margin call").

 

This is exactly what it is. A dirty Grid Trader in disguise. Look at the identical closing timestamps of multiple open positions and the large SL. This EA is a ticking bomb ready to go off at any minute of the day. Use caution and pls don't support this kind of developer.

 

Cheers

[Sneed]

I decided to answer my own question by selecting "order now". And it took me to the message that ryan-isra listed above. Well, at least I tried... :)

 

It says "order now". Does that mean we can get it today instead of waiting until the end of the month? Or is it just a "deposit" on a copy?

[conglo]

You can go to their forum where these questions are answered in detail.

 

 

They're asking a very high price for an EA that only trades one pair; consider what you will have paid after two years.

[dingueling]

The price is not important I am ready to pay 1000$ a month for a EA if I make 2000$ /month with it.

[hitescape]

You can go to their forum where these questions are answered in detail.

 

They're asking a very high price for an EA that only trades one pair; consider what you will have paid after two years.

 

Well, at this time it is all speculation as to whether it makes or loses money and I may be eating my words later (hopefully with something that tastes good).

 

Personally, I like the subscription method as they only make money by providing something that makes me more money. If it were a managed account, they would charge a monthly fee plus 25% - 40% of the profits. With this model, the monthly bite is fixed and becomes an insignificant amount as the account grows. If it loses money just quit and you are done.

 

To paraphrase dingueling: "Price isn't important as long as it makes more money." I just don't want another a repackaged grid, Martingale or progressive risk EA.

 

After all, we are all here because we want to make (more) money.

[Stormin_Norman]

It definitely uses a grid trading strategy, or recovery system of some description, they show as much in the whitepaper in its trading description. I will give it credit though, it does use a stop loss and has constant backtests since 2007.

 

I downloaded the backtests from the site (link was in the whitepaper) but I can't open it on my analyst software. My guess is because they removed the properties in the test report.

 

No doubt it will become available when its released for us to test.

[hitescape]

One thing that I didn't understand in their white paper is under the Monte Carlo testing they concluded that the worst day could be a day with 0 profit. How can that be when the backtests show losses? Wouldn't the worst day be some sort of loss? Or is one of those finer points of statistics that I promptly forgot the day after I passed the final?

[conglo]

Well, at this time it is all speculation as to whether it makes or loses money and I may be eating my words later (hopefully with something that tastes good).

 

Personally, I like the subscription method as they only make money by providing something that makes me more money. If it were a managed account, they would charge a monthly fee plus 25% - 40% of the profits. With this model, the monthly bite is fixed and becomes an insignificant amount as the account grows. If it loses money just quit and you are done.

 

To paraphrase dingueling: "Price isn't important as long as it makes more money." I just don't want another a repackaged grid, Martingale or progressive risk EA.

 

After all, we are all here because we want to make (more) money.

 

TRADING IS A BUSINESS.

 

First of all, backtests mean NOTHING. If you haven't learned this yet, woe unto you.

 

"With this model, the monthly bite is fixed and becomes an insignificant amount as the account grows." - This is an assumption, not a fact. The EA has not yet been released. Who says whether the account grows? Only time will tell.

 

"If it loses money just quit and you are done."

Okay, but you've lost YOUR money, but they've still made theirs.

So who is assuming the risk? YOU ARE. What is THEIR risk? ZERO.

 

I'm not going to enter a pissing match about this, so don't try.

But if you cannot place a proper respective VALUE on things, you will fail in trading, because proper value assessment is what trading is all about.

 

If you want to spend your money (capital) away on an unproven EA that takes your money month by month with no real history of real profits, that's your choice.

Give some thought as to whether that's a sound business decision.

 

OUT.

Edited November 16, 2010 by conglo

[⭐ fxknight]

This is turning into a faked commercial post to sell this EA it seems. So sad. Do yourself a favor and stay away from this EA (or these TYPE of EAs). Few weeks, few months from now you will look back and smile at your decision to leave it alone.

 

Cheers

[San4x]

TRADING IS A BUSINESS.

 

First of all, backtests mean NOTHING. If you haven't learned this yet, woe unto you.

 

"With this model, the monthly bite is fixed and becomes an insignificant amount as the account grows." - This is an assumption, not a fact. The EA has not yet been released. Who says whether the account grows? Only time will tell.

 

"If it loses money just quit and you are done."

Okay, but you've lost YOUR money, but they've still made theirs.

So who is assuming the risk? YOU ARE. What is THEIR risk? ZERO.

 

I'm not going to enter a pissing match about this, so don't try.

But if you cannot place a proper respective VALUE on things, you will fail in trading, because proper value assessment is what trading is all about.

 

If you want to spend your money (capital) away on an unproven EA that takes your money month by month with no real history of real profits, that's your choice.

Give some thought as to whether that's a sound business decision.

 

OUT.

 

Forward test is on the website. So far, it shows nice profits.

Moreover, it seems that the EA was even further improved (see blog).

 

Regarding your statement "So who is assuming the risk? YOU ARE. What is THEIR risk? ZERO."

A trader always assumes the risk. That's the nature of the business. And of course the risk for TulipFX is zero in this case. Ever tried to convince BMW (or any other car manufacturer) to share the risk when you buy a new car?

Or ask Microsoft to share the risk since you use their software to run your business?

 

I have seen tons of EAs that charge way more (up to $5000) and proved to be completely worthless. I think the membership fee is actually a realistic solution for the trader to decide whether to continue or not without huge initial investment.

[conglo]

hitescape and all- I apologize for my rant.

 

It was not so much directed at you as it was to the general prevalent trading mentality which seems to be, "If I throw enough money at this forex thing, eventually I'll get rich."

As far as a peepee match, it's just been my experience that if you make a strong statement you're going to get flamed by SOMEONE who wants to get into an ego battle.

I don't like to fight, despite my apparent demeanor.

 

As far as the price of this EA, we must remember there is a monthly fee on top of the initial payment.

They want about 900 Euros for this thing. That's a lot of dough.

It may take a year to decide that it's not working for you, and you will have paid plenty to find out. Too risky for me.

 

If any of the members buy this and prove collectively over time that it has value, I'll certainly consider it.

Edited November 16, 2010 by conglo

[hitescape]

I have made an apology to conglo and wish to extend that to all who read my inappropriate post before I deleted it.

[Stormin_Norman]

As far as the price of this EA, we must remember there is a monthly fee on top of the initial payment.

They want about 900 Euros for this thing. That's a lot of dough.

It may take a year to decide that it's not working for you, and you will have paid plenty to find out. Too risky for me.

 

If any of the members buy this and prove collectively over time that it has value, I'll certainly consider it.

 

They are asking 1300 euro or something for it, or 97 euro + subscription. So about the same as the other junk systems out there. upfront and a fee per month if it continues to work for people. Not that I am too worried. It will get shared here and we can run it and test it before purchasing - which is the point of this forum.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Stormin_Norman

[conglo]

I have made an apology to conglo and wish to extend that to all who read my inappropriate post before I deleted it.

 

You are most gracious, but an apology from you is not at all necessary.

 

Thanks.

Edited November 17, 2010 by conglo

[kerozin]

When this EA will be out exactly?

[Sneed]

A welcome trend with a lot of the new EAs is that instead of a license being restricted to just 1 "broker" account, they are restricted to just 1 "computer". So, the security protects from sharing, but "not" from using on different accounts, that are by the same owner, on the same computer or VPS. I hope this new trend in licensing will continue with this EA.[-O<

I hope there will be a discount for multiple licenses. I have a lot of brokers to test it on.

[hitescape]

A welcome trend with a lot of the new EAs is that instead of a license being restricted to just 1 "broker" account, they are restricted to just 1 "computer". So, the security protects from sharing, but "not" from using on different accounts, that are by the same owner, on the same computer or VPS. I hope this new trend in licensing will continue with this EA.[-O<

 

Well its BAD NEWS for us with multiple accounts on the same VPS. Here is their policy from their FAQ page:

 

"Each EA will allow you to use it on one demo account and one live account. You can always change accounts by re-authenticating the EA for a different account number. If you wish to change your demo or live account number for your Expert Advisor, please click here. Note that when you change account numbers, the EA will stop working on the old account number."

 

That is more restrictive than most other EAs that I have recently seen and there is no mention of discounts for second or third accounts but after reading their draconian refund policy I wouldn't expect much.

 

I also see that this EA can hedge. Here is a quote from the reader comments on the FAQ page:

 

"Kangaroo utilizes a complicated money management system which at times may have both long and short positions open. Although Kangaroo is not designed as a hedging EA, this might occur from time to time when certain market situations arise."

 

I wish developers of EAs would stop and do the math before they release hedging EAs. If the EA intends to close all open positions at the same time then hedging makes no economic sense, NEVER! The customer ends up paying extra spread, commission and swap (or receives less swap) when a position is hedged. All a hedge does is freeze the existing profit or loss until the hedge is closed and often decreases available margin. The ONLY purpose a hedge serves is emotional and or deceitful. Emotional in that it is not admitting that there are losses and deceitful as it is a favorite tactic to hide the Martingale or progressive risk aspect of certain grid trading strategies. I don't know what strategy Kangaroo will use but the NFA had it at least partly correct about their no hedging rules.

 

They also state:

 

"We are considering to release a NFA compliant version as well, but this version will be less profitable as the original design.""

 

If they don't use a basket of trading strategies like Forex Combo then I will be very interested in their mathematical proof for that statement. If the EA is written correctly and closes all trades at the same time then being NFA compliant will actually be more profitable. But then they wouldn't be able to claim that the worst outcome for any given day is no profit as there definitely will be loss trades as positions are closed. Here is the quote from their Kangaroo White Paper:

 

"The test reveals that the worst trading day in a whole year is most likely to have loss/profit of $0."

 

and

 

"If the KangarooEA performs to expectations the modelling (sp) shows the worst day is simply one which does not

trade."

 

That makes this sound like a "No Loss" EA but maybe I just need to be educated on the finer points of Monte-Carlo simulation.

Edited November 19, 2010 by hitescape
Added color to quotes

[Sneed]

Yes, I saw that part. But, my understanding is that 95% of secure EA's use this old method because the source code is more available. I get the impression that the developers would consider other methods of license security if people request it. The source code for the newer license protection which allows for a single computer instead of a single broker is more difficult to get. I know that Crescendo uses this newer code, yet, for example the Fapturbo People, and BulletProof, still use the older method. I will see if I can find some other EAs that use this newer code, and offer to send it to the developers. In the long run, this newer code will be better for business, and may even be more secure than the old code.

 

A lot of my EA's use Hedging, that is why I try to find a few brokers that service USA customers, even "after" the new rules came out last month. For example, ForexOpen, and ForexLite and Tadawul, still accept USA customers and allow Hedging. They also allow the old Higher 100 to 1 margins.

 

Many times an EA can be trading short term and long term at the same time. So, for example, in the short term, a scalp can be achieved when the currency pair goes up, just before going into a downward trend. Using this method, it is possible for both opposing trades to make a profit, providing that the TP is not so great that the reversal happens before the trade closes. If that happens, then, the trades may cancel each other out, and, as you suggest, it is difficult to make a profit.

 

I am anxious to forward test this EA since back testing does not always work well for me as a "final" indicator of the value of an EA. In terms of risk, I see no problem with just starting with micro-lots, and see how things go from there. :-$

 

 

Well its BAD NEWS for us with multiple accounts on the same VPS. Here is their policy from their FAQ page:

 

"Each EA will allow you to use it on one demo account and one live account. You can always change accounts by re-authenticating the EA for a different account number. If you wish to change your demo or live account number for your Expert Advisor, please click here. Note that when you change account numbers, the EA will stop working on the old account number."

 

That is more restrictive than most other EAs that I have recently seen and there is no mention of discounts for second or third accounts but after reading their draconian refund policy I wouldn't expect much.

 

I also see that this EA can hedge. Here is a quote from the reader comments on the FAQ page:

 

"Kangaroo utilizes a complicated money management system which at times may have both long and short positions open. Although Kangaroo is not designed as a hedging EA, this might occur from time to time when certain market situations arise."

 

I wish developers of EAs would stop and do the math before they release hedging EAs. If the EA intends to close all open positions at the same time then hedging makes no economic sense, NEVER! The customer ends up paying extra spread, commission and swap (or receives less swap) when a position is hedged. All a hedge does is freeze the existing profit or loss until the hedge is closed and often decreases available margin. The ONLY purpose a hedge serves is emotional and or deceitful. Emotional in that it is not admitting that there are losses and deceitful as it is a favorite tactic to hide the Martingale or progressive risk aspect of certain grid trading strategies. I don't know what strategy Kangaroo will use but the NFA had it at least partly correct about their no hedging rules.

 

They also state:

 

"We are considering to release a NFA compliant version as well, but this version will be less profitable as the original design.""

 

If they don't use a basket of trading strategies like Forex Combo then I will be very interested in their mathematical proof for that statement. If the EA is written correctly and closes all trades at the same time then being NFA compliant will actually be more profitable. But then they wouldn't be able to claim that the worst outcome for any given day is no profit as there definitely will be loss trades as positions are closed. Here is the quote from their Kangaroo White Paper:

 

"The test reveals that the worst trading day in a whole year is most likely to have loss/profit of $0."

 

and

 

"If the KangarooEA performs to expectations the modelling (sp) shows the worst day is simply one which does not

trade."

 

That makes this sound like a "No Loss" EA but maybe I just need to be educated on the finer points of Monte-Carlo simulation.

[hitescape]

Your comment about a scalp inside a longer term position is exactly what Forex Combo does but most grid style traders that I have seen don't try to take advantage of 2 or more trading systems. Thankfully I'm in Costa Rica so I can pick and choose my brokers.

 

MagickStick is another EA that licenses the machine, not the code. To my knowledge, it hasn't been cracked and it has been out for some time.

[Sneed]

I have not tried Forex Combo but it sounds interesting if it does that. Most of the EAs that I am referring to that hedge different time frames is by attaching them to more than one chart of the same currency pair. For example Pips Reserve has 3 EAs (3 exit strategies), that get attached to EURUSD. So the magic numbers on each is different to accomplish this. Another recent EA that does this is ForexQuattro, which is 4 EAs, 2 get attached to EURUSD, and the other 2 get attached to GBPUSD. The first EA is 15 TF, the second is 30 TF (EURUSD). Then the third one is back to 15 TF (GBPUSD), then 30 TF. So, each EA is not technically hedging, since they place one trade. But, the brokerage might interpret the multiple orders as hedging, if some are buying and some are selling. Also, these robots would not work well on FIFO regulated accounts.

 

If MagicStick still has not been cracked, then that is another reason the Kangaroo developers may be interested in trying this licensing system out. I have no doubt that the developers visit forums like ours, and consider what features future customers would like to see. So, I am trying to be optimistic that newer versions of Kangaroo may have the updated licensing protection method.

 

;)I am told that Costa Rica has a good health care system, and many Americans travel there for treatment, rather than flying all the way to India all the time. India has good prices, (especially for people without medical insurance) and good doctors, but the trip is very long.

 

Your comment about a scalp inside a longer term position is exactly what Forex Combo does but most grid style traders that I have seen don't try to take advantage of 2 or more trading systems. Thankfully I'm in Costa Rica so I can pick and choose my brokers.

 

MagickStick is another EA that licenses the machine, not the code. To my knowledge, it hasn't been cracked and it has been out for some time.

[ramliam]

Your comment about a scalp inside a longer term position is exactly what Forex Combo does but most grid style traders that I have seen don't try to take advantage of 2 or more trading systems. Thankfully I'm in Costa Rica so I can pick and choose my brokers.

 

MagickStick is another EA that licenses the machine, not the code. To my knowledge, it hasn't been cracked and it has been out for some time.

 

cracked please read post 42:

http://indo-investasi.com/showthread.php/6787-(REQ)-M-gicStick/page5

regards