InvestorsHaven Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I have recently been introduced to a web based remote app program that allows the user to access a MT4 through a web application without accessing the files of the program. The idea is to give the user access to a MT4 with an EA on it that you can configure or run demo's on, but you would not have access to the EA files themselves. This to me sounds like a perfect "non-hack" environment that will allow users to run either demo or live. In your opinion, is this something you would be interested in? What are your pro's and con's on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
⭐ birt Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Re: Your opinion please... I have recently been introduced to a web based remote app program that allows the user to access a MT4 through a web application without accessing the files of the program. The idea is to give the user access to a MT4 with an EA on it that you can configure or run demo's on, but you would not have access to the EA files themselves. This to me sounds like a perfect "non-hack" environment that will allow users to run either demo or live. In your opinion, is this something you would be interested in? What are your pro's and con's on it? If it works as I suspect it would, I wouldn't be very eager to give my account login to a 3rd party; on top of that, by the sound of it, I wouldn't be able to run other EAs on the same account or do any manual trading. Also, what would stop one from simply running a demo account there and copying the trades to a real account? If you want a perfect non-hack environment, just put a part of the code that has to be executed at every new bar on a server, in a PHP or something and make the EA access that URL instead of a simple authentication URL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvestorsHaven Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Re: Your opinion please... I have recently been introduced to a web based remote app program that allows the user to access a MT4 through a web application without accessing the files of the program. The idea is to give the user access to a MT4 with an EA on it that you can configure or run demo's on, but you would not have access to the EA files themselves. This to me sounds like a perfect "non-hack" environment that will allow users to run either demo or live. In your opinion, is this something you would be interested in? What are your pro's and con's on it? If it works as I suspect it would, I wouldn't be very eager to give my account login to a 3rd party; on top of that, by the sound of it, I wouldn't be able to run other EAs on the same account or do any manual trading. Also, what would stop one from simply running a demo account there and copying the trades to a real account? If you want a perfect non-hack environment, just put a part of the code that has to be executed at every new bar on a server, in a PHP or something and make the EA access that URL instead of a simple authentication URL. Not a bad idea on the new candle and link to a server. To further explain the concept. With Win 2k8, you can provide people with a TS RemoteApp. But the client has to Vista or Win 7, so, We provide the client with a VPS that they log into, that VPS has a RS RemoteApp RDP to the MT4, which is already setup on the main VPS server. We do not have access to your account information in the way of broker access. You supply that to the MT4 on your own. You can change the configurations of the MT4 as you have in the past, but there is no access to the files controlling the MT4 EA. This would mean we could provide multiple Demos, and live accounts to the user. they have secured access to our product and seciuity to their access to the broker. The syutems would be imaged with MT4 and the EA from the independent VPS Host. The user would just acquire the needed VPS and then register their desired license with us and apply it to the MT4 EA that was imaged. The thought on the pricing would be a membership fee and a low monthly, meaning we could drop our prices to make it more affordable. As it would be on a residual basis. In theory, this is not concrete as we have not completed the assesment of expenses, but here is a throretical pricing: 1. A annual membership fee of say $200 USD to cover startup costs 2. For a demo, you would cover the costs of the VPS ($50) that will allow you access to the systems. Click an icon on the desktop to request a demo account. and you can do this up to say 4 times. Total of 4 demos. 3. For a live account, you would need 2 VPS ($100), 1 for your access, the other would be for your live account to sit on the back server that remotes the product. In step #2, you shared the backend with other clients running demos on that back server. This affords you a savings by sharing the server. On the live, the entire VPS server on the back end is exclusively yours for high performance and low latency. 4. Standard would maybe cost $50 a month as a service. 5. The Pro would be maybe $100. Summary: Membership: $200 Demo = $50 mth Standard live: $150 mth Pro live: $200 mth This helps you to have a lower cost to trade, it helps us to secure the product and allow folks to enyoy earnings. And Keeps everyone honest and secure. I ask for your input now, because it is a path that seems to be the best of all worlds for everyone. Your input here will help us to make it work for everyone. Without your input I am subject to just the accountants opinion, and I am sure you know what the accountant will say. This is how I work, I get traders input in what I do for them. This is how I know what makes the program worthy, it is also how I know how to best serve you. If you really want the devs ear and get systems that work for you, then helping me to design siystems that fit your needs is how I am going to be able to do this for you. By The Way Birt, I hope there are no hard feelings in regards to my statements in my first thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San4x Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Re: Your opinion please... A few marketing/strategy tips: - KISS: Be careful not to make things to complicated for your customers. The more hassle it is to get setup (demo or real), the lesser customers will actually take the leap (of faith). Remember most of us already have (several) accounts on our own VPS servers running. That's just one more extra worry. And one additional monthly bill. You're effectively raising the barrier to draw in new clients. - Rumour around the brand: when actually less than expected people start using your service this way, there'll be less rumour about it. Thus less sales. Tell your accountant the same. Example: Had I not been a member here, I would have never heard about BBW. I saw the posts here on it, paid several visits to your website, submitted my info for a demo. And when the EA demo works, I might purchase it. Bingo! Potential new customer. Cracking can promote sales If a good EA gets "hacked" and posted here...and the EA actually works, I actually think this might increase sales on your end. For one, when I test a (cracked) EA, I will ALWAYS buy the genuine version. Why? Because I want the real thing running on my live accounts...and not take a gamble. Moreover, I want the support, upgrades, settings etc. from its maker. I know you're dealing with a two-edged sword here. Being too protective of your IP, however, can kill your business. (Prime example: Remember Apple vs. Microsoft in the late 1980s...? The fact Apple did not give their source code away almost killed them and gave Microsoft the competitive advantage they needed to win.). Just my 2 pips. Quote Thanks for the kudos...much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
⭐ birt Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Re: Your opinion please... No hard feelings at all, I hope there are none on your side either. As for the remote system you described, it seems overly complicated to me. If I'm having trouble picturing it, just imagine what will the average user think. Sure, that solution might work for a tech person, but the regular guy that doesn't even know exactly how to install an EA will surely run into a lot of problems and you're probably going to end up offering support for the VPS server and support for the MT4 client. I'm even slightly surprised that you're using VMProtect seeing that (from what I hear) many antivirus packages flag its protected result as a potential virus and on top of that, it's not even that good. I don't even want to think about the nightmare that must be dealing with the customers complaining about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorinfx Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Re: Your opinion please... This ia a terrible idea. There are a number of us traders that just won't deal with such a solution for a number of reasons. This proves out time and time again. Focus your energy on producing a profitable product and the buyers will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvestorsHaven Posted February 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2010 Re: Your opinion please... A few marketing/strategy tips: - KISS: Be careful not to make things to complicated for your customers. The more hassle it is to get setup (demo or real), the lesser customers will actually take the leap (of faith). Remember most of us already have (several) accounts on our own VPS servers running. That's just one more extra worry. And one additional monthly bill. You're effectively raising the barrier to draw in new clients. - Rumour around the brand: when actually less than expected people start using your service this way, there'll be less rumour about it. Thus less sales. Tell your accountant the same. Example: Had I not been a member here, I would have never heard about BBW. I saw the posts here on it, paid several visits to your website, submitted my info for a demo. And when the EA demo works, I might purchase it. Bingo! Potential new customer. Cracking can promote sales If a good EA gets "hacked" and posted here...and the EA actually works, I actually think this might increase sales on your end. For one, when I test a (cracked) EA, I will ALWAYS buy the genuine version. Why? Because I want the real thing running on my live accounts...and not take a gamble. Moreover, I want the support, upgrades, settings etc. from its maker. I know you're dealing with a two-edged sword here. Being too protective of your IP, however, can kill your business. (Prime example: Remember Apple vs. Microsoft in the late 1980s...? The fact Apple did not give their source code away almost killed them and gave Microsoft the competitive advantage they needed to win.). Just my 2 pips. Excellent feedback there San, thanks. You mentioned something that I did not think of and it would make it even better for those who do have VPS setups already. If you already have a VPS setup, all we have to do is to share out the folder path to you for your connections to the back end VPS, another price savings to users with an existing VPS. KISS: I am retaining a specialize developer from MSFT that is an old buddy of mine to redesign our website and create this special application interface with me. It is going to cost some serious cash, he is not cheap, but damn good. We will construct it to be sweet and simple for users of all scales. RUMOR: I agree, but you guys actually are meeting the company on the growth of the rumor bubble not the back side. I am sure someday we may rank with FapTurbo or better, ok, a fella can dream. Cracking: I understand the perspective you are illustrating here, I cannot say I agree with it. I can say there is the old saying, locks only keep the good out, but I must be responsible to my employees and my customer and do everything I can to ensure the quality, value, and even security of our work. Without ethics in this industry, all you get is $97 dollar wanna be scammers. New Technology: This could be considered a new technology to simplify the installation, configuration, and access to the products. Better yet, the performance for most would be the biggest benefit. With VPS our demos run about 150 milliseconds to our broker that is only a few blocks down the road from our host. On the brokers live server connection it is 17 milliseconds. Who would not want a better performance to the broker. Now this is just our broker scenario, NY is a major back bone for most brokers in the market, if so, anyone who has a broker located in that area would be able to benefit from the performance to their own broker as well. -- 06 Feb 2010, 10:39 -- Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I found a way to make the demo a free service to our customers using this system. We only need our potential clients and clients to have a single access point to get to their remote apps, so we will cover the cost of the clientVPS and use it as a gateway for our clients and potentials to get to the products on the back end VPS. Again if they have their own VPS, we could supply them with the needed setup to link them to the backend VPS. -- 06 Feb 2010, 11:02 -- Another thing that just occured to me, as we build updates or improve configurations for a higher performance or a changing market, we could easily manage this in a centralized solution like what we are discussing. We just sent a network message to the client on their VPS asking permission to perform the update, then apply it at their convenience. -- 06 Feb 2010, 11:04 -- Holy smoke another thought here, the update could come in the form of a windows update local or a network update. Man this just keeps getting better. -- 07 Feb 2010, 10:45 -- Ok, so this idea has proven out to be bad, may I have your suggestions on how to address the issues and still be able to continue down our current path instead of this new path? So far, I have heard that people like the idea of 100% control, being able to down load and install a program and EA, but the question remains, how do I afford this and still be able to keep the hack risk low? How do I compete with them? If you like the way we are going prior to the hack attacks, help me to find a way to address the hacks. I am more than willing to do forum Q/A's help folks understand how our programs work, and what we calculate to get the desired results, so if someone is curious, great, I will show you what I did, but I am talking about the serious hacks that then go out onto the market and cut our prices with their version, not only prices but reputation of being a sound and safe product. A recent hack job was found that actually changed the MM behaviors, the new hacked version actually causes damage to a users account. This is an issue where people develope a trust with us, only to see it shot down. So my concern goes deeper than just price, reputation, but so much more. Please help me figure this out. -- 07 Feb 2010, 11:16 -- Demo accounts are now available again on the BuyNow.html page. This should reduce hacks for curious investigating folks. So feel free to demo the products. -- 12 Feb 2010, 10:01 -- I can see clearly thanks to another investors situation that we are not addressing the brokers min lot size correctly in the MM. There is a temporary solution to this problem while I work out the coding solution. I believe by increasing the number of pairs, say from 6 to 15, you should be able to force the lot size smaller, at the brokers min level. This is to say that it will force the program to kick into opening trades that are set to the brokers min value, which would reduce the risk, and prevent the over leveraging that occurs. I will get an email to everyone who has an account with us to try this as a change in the event their broker requires larger lot sizes. Meanwhile, I will attempt to modify the code to adjust for this. If you are using Pro, you can cut the risk in half as well to assist with the protection. another way to assist with controlling this situation is to increase the MaringMinLevel variable to say 1500 or even 2000 if this is still not enough. This will prevent the larger trades from drawing down to risk margin issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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