vwrestler Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 I was very poor in manual trading. I lost a lot while learning. If there is no ea, I won't be able to survive. Now I only do manual trades on demo account. I found the forex game very difficult to be played by humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oasisfans Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs Yes i have same situation here,,now i using 2 EA for my trading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiNo Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs Probably you could survive if you set at the same time your profit target and stop loss. You enter somewhere between those points though be sure you have at least ratio 2:1 in favor of the profit target. Where to put those points? Former swing low/highs, round numbers, Fibonacci replacements/extensions, pivot points and particularly if three or more have confluence. Whatever happens do not move those pre-calculated lines. And avoid big volatile days and news days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiNo Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs EAs dont usually work Well, elaborating this statement there is one thing why one should still pursue EA, even if it is difficult to find a profitable one in long run. EA can and should be back tested, all manual systems without back testing are quite risky and usually will lead to losing positions. Only solution is to scroll back a few time periods and apply it manually without cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsaffron Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs I believe very few EA's will make you money. They are fun to play with on demo accounts, but most of what is out there doesn't work on live accounts. I think I can do better with manual trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepescumi Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs manual is poor sometime, EA is poor some other time, but i choose EA.. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipslovah Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs My experience with EAs so far is if you dont have sufficient margin then many EAs WILL eventually give you a margin call and cause u to lose your deposit. But with a few brokers that offer cents accounts, things are possible for those who couldnt afford a huge deposit to satisfy the EAs requirements. Whether manual trading or Automated, Money Management is always Key to the success or failure in the end. My experience is, as long as u dont get a margin call, U'll still be able to make much more money than the banks or other financial institutions can offer u. \m/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traderdon Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs combine a few EAs and watch your lot sizes .......with some prudence and testing this can work ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewajudi Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs anyone has bad experience with useing ea's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon8261 Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs EA's traded on a demo account rarely produce the same results when they go live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhac Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs also depends on the brooker you test it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcf.beyer Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs I am getting desperate now! Three months demo testing seems just like a silver lining on the horizon of automated trading. My manual trading really would be profitable, if I'd take the trades 5 minutes past my entry points! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkris6 Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs Yes trading as a human is not easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutekki Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs I'm running the Euroblaster v for a few weeks now. Started with €990 and it went up to €1057 and now I have a drawdown and the equity is €575!! But that's all part of the game, you can have a drawdown of 70% to 80%. The problem is that eventhough it's automatic, you still keep watching it very often to see how it's going.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMAXer Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs Wow, 80% drawdown ? I have never used an automatic trading software. I think I will never accept such a drawndown. I prefer manual and discretionary trading. We can be much more efficient, minimising risks and trying maximising profits. Morever, observing carefully the price while trading allows to better understand price action with time. This is an invaluable experience. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banky Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs Some people play forex naked ie they use price action and money management .. we can all do it but we need education and discipline. which leads to money management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banky Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs I agree with pipslovah three words good money management is the key...one can even learn to trade by try and error if you have a good money management...but aint we all greedy!!! and fearful...as a hind-sight I look at myself and just see what another trader will do panic and hope it comes back when a good run turns against us or quickly cash in when price moves in our favor.tho price may still move 100 more pips in our direction but we're already out...then we start thinking let jump back in ...but then the run was just at an end ...then we start the hoping again...what we can take from all this ...lack of discipline...i'm new to trading and still make these mistakes but I hope it helps me to voice my experience here.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outcast Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs manual trading can work I am a newbie and have been manual trading for 2 months. 1st month very good 2nd month not so good but with good money management and not risking more than 2% your balance you can succeed. Of course you need a good system as well. There are some good ones available on this site just take a good look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundfx Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs The earlier comment "The problem is that eventhough it's automatic, you still keep watching it very often to see how it's going...." is the crucial one for those who can't survive without EAs. If you can't survive trading without EAs and never look at the charts and hope to just take some profits when they appear then I can see that you'll find it tricky surviving the markets particularly if you don't have the source code for the EA (and the ability to change the way it works when new market conditions lead to poor performance). My experience of using EAs and I'm sure it's the same for many other folks is that we end up watching the EAs when they're trading and make our own decisions on whether or not the EAs are making good or bad calls when they trade. Forget all the fancy indicators and just look at what price is actually doing and look at where your EA enters and exits trades. Whatever timeframe you're in, you can see on the screen the dominant trend in that timeframe: If price is moving from bottom left to top right the trend is up, if price is moving from top left to bottom right the trend is down, and if you can't decide then we're in a ranging market. Learn how to use channels when price is ranging and trade in the direction of the trend in a trending market. If the dominant trend is down and your EA trades Long the trade is going to look like a loser from the start and will in all probability end up being one. If you have to use EAs, my advice would be not to leave them to run for a month or year or whatever and expect to revisit your account when you're a millionaire. Instead, critically view each trade which the EA is making against the price action (or at least monitor whenever you have a spare couple of minutes). After some time of "baby sitting" EAs like this you'll find that you develop a natural connection to the market moves and will be able to outwit your EA when it makes bad trades and quickly cut those losses rather than letting them run into the several hundred pip stop losses which a lot of "highly accurate" EAs have by necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal108 Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs Would it stand to reason that the best ea's work great but most of the people who have them, have the wisdom and discipline to be very quiet about their success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundfx Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs Hal108, I'd like to think that there are EAs out there which are bringing in millions for their creators who have never had the need to sell them to the mass public through sophisticated marketing channels, though I doubt if they really exist. The closest I believe you would get to these sort of EAs are the ones which are kept under wraps by the guys who enter the automated trading championships. However, even those EAs are normally specially coded for the specific market conditions at that time to give them the best "edge". Anyone who develops an EA which is looking pretty good (though not hugely profitable yet) will normally turn to the trading community for help and advice on improving it, as it's a difficult task for one person to create anything close to a perfect EA. As we've seen there are some EAs developed in this way (Firebird springs to mind) which are quite successful. Firebird was actually hijacked under a re-label by some slick marketeers though they were not quite as slick with their coding and even left one of comments in there which said "Firebird", even though their software was called "Forex Super-Annihilator" or some other outrageous title lol. sbscfx, My experience with EAs in live is as follows: 1) Forex Autopilot (the precursor to FAPTurbo) I more than doubled my account with this EA over a matter of weeks. The entry signals are actually quite accurate and I was impressed in watching the robot trade. However as with most EA's on the market the downside to the extremely high accuracy ratings 90%+ is that the risk/reward ratio is too high. 20 targets and 500 pip stops! When the EA got it wrong, it got it wrong big time and more and more I was finding myself manually "nursing" bad trades which were suffering large drawdowns, so I pulled the plug after taking some large losses which almost put my account back to where I started. It may be possible to trade successfully with this EA and I found it worked best just letting it run in the main UK/early US session, however drawdowns are the killer and have to be manually managed. 2) FAP Turbo FAP Turbo scalper worked well in the early days, until everyone jumped on the bandwagon and the brokers started messing traders around during the quiet trading times when the scalper ran. I managed to almost double my account with FAPTurbo, then price action became less predictable, spreads widened and FAPTurbo with it's 6 pip target and 112 pip stop on EUR/GBP and 5 pip target and 53 stop on EUR/CHF (the only pairs worth trading), eventually started hitting runs of losing trades with account blowing potential, so I cut that short before it did too much damage. FAPTurbo on ECN isn't all it's cracked up to be either - even though you get into more trades because of the favourable spreads, you also end up getting into more bad trades too! 3) ForexMetaRobot This one interested me because it traded AUD/NZD, which is a pair I've never looked at before. There were great claims of huge accuracy, accounts multiplying several times in a few days etc. Unfortunately, by the time I started running this EA, accounts were halving several times in a few days lol. I put the robot on with a small lot size and let it run and it couldn't handle trends at all. It was placing multiple trades, and with the spread being huge on AUD/NZD with most brokers, there was no way this was going to be profitable long term, so that was unplugged very quickly. The software has since been improved with new trend spotting indicators, though tests indicate that it's still not going to make anyone a millionaire any time soon. I've run some others through demo and on backtest, though I can't remember what they all were now, because none of the results were sufficiently impressive to attempt to trade live. I'll be interested to hear other peoples' experience of using EAs in the same way. I've found that the only downside to this excellent forum is that there's very little analysis, backtesting results and details of experience of using this huge amount of trading material. I'm sure that there's a gold nugget (or several) hiding somewhere within the forum, though I've yet to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vwrestler Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs Sorry, moderator. I don't intend to start a new thread. It was just because one day I found my self not able to log in the forum again. so I have to post 15 messages within one day so that I could come back as soon as possible. I am quite ignotrant about posting in a forum. Therefore I have made a mistakes of opening too many threads. I should have open one thread and have 14 reply below it. However what I say is my real experience. I found that EAs look at the lines and charts different from human beings. Humans trade by intuition or illusion. Eas do not have eyes, so they don't see the charts, they calculate. I have learned how to code, so I started by coding the MA average. One the charts, it seems to to true that we can earn if the short-term MA going up and corsses the long-term MA and vice-versa. Many books introduced this as a classical way of manual trading. I tried to code it, but strangely, it does not work. Then I code an EA which is profitable, but it is not possible to trade maunally, because human beings cannot sense such a smakll and short-term changes on the chart (M1). EAs can see numbers, though they cannot see the chart like human beings. And then, for a while, I thouhgt it is the best if we give routine trading job to eas, and supplement it by manual trading. but still I find that manual trading is 100 times more difficult than EA trading. Now I have no fear in EA trading, I know I will not have a big drawdown. But in manual trading I have fear. my losing trade is more than winning trade. So I stop manual trading on my live account. My hope is to keep on practising manual trading on demo accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vwrestler Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs Hi, Mutekki I think you should try my modified version of EuroBlaster. The drawdown is reduced to 5% of the balance. h**p://www.f0rexsharing.com/753729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryaz Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs Mate forex isn't difficult it's risky. Let's say you enter randomly with TP/SL quite larger than spread, ex. 100pips on EU, then you have 50/50 chance to win or lose, so I think anyone can perform better than random entry. So forex isn't about EA's or indicators as much it is about risk management, and quite often many traders suffer heavy losses because they don't know what they risk beforehand. And I can tell you most of the EAs in the market have shitty to no risk management at all. regards Quote Ad augusta per angusta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syedzain_87 Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Re: I will be out if there is no EAs usually i use scalper for live trading. i have backtest it and forward test it by using lowest and fixed spread broker is my method to trust the performance of EA.. i try test it in several pairs such as eurgbp and eurchf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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