FIFO Rule

[⭐ cowboy]

Hi, Fello Trader,

I reaceived e-mail from IBFX about FIFO rule. I don't know only IBFX or other brokers also. Before, Traders can't do headge, now FIFO... :berbusa: Trying to make trader harder. :((

Good luck with future trade.

 

To our valued clients,

 

As you may know, the National Futures Association (NFA), has implemented new First-in, First-out (FIFO) requirements that will be in effect as of July 31, 2009. We at Interbank FX have been working hard on a solution and are confident that our traders will be able to use our MetaTrader 4 platform with little or no interruption. They will also continue to be able to use their MT4 expert advisors.

 

The NFA is striving to ensure the highest levels of integrity from all market participants and their intermediaries. We want to assure you that Interbank FX strives to be 100% compliant with the NFA.

 

We are currently working on some informational and instructional videos regarding the FIFO requirements and our solution, however most of you will be able to continue trading without any impact to your platform or strategies. In our effort to provide the best solution for your trading, you will be fully advised prior to any proposed changes.

 

We thank you for your continued support and wish you the best of luck with your trading.

 

Best regards,

 

IBFX

[copycat]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

Hi, Fello Trader,

I reaceived e-mail from IBFX about FIFO rule. I don't know only IBFX or other brokers also. Before, Traders can't do headge, now FIFO... :berbusa: Trying to make trader harder. :((

Good luck with future trade.

 

To our valued clients,

 

As you may know, the National Futures Association (NFA), has implemented new First-in, First-out (FIFO) requirements that will be in effect as of July 31, 2009. We at Interbank FX have been working hard on a solution and are confident that our traders will be able to use our MetaTrader 4 platform with little or no interruption. They will also continue to be able to use their MT4 expert advisors.

 

The NFA is striving to ensure the highest levels of integrity from all market participants and their intermediaries. We want to assure you that Interbank FX strives to be 100% compliant with the NFA.

 

We are currently working on some informational and instructional videos regarding the FIFO requirements and our solution, however most of you will be able to continue trading without any impact to your platform or strategies. In our effort to provide the best solution for your trading, you will be fully advised prior to any proposed changes.

 

We thank you for your continued support and wish you the best of luck with your trading.

 

Best regards,

 

IBFX

 

Hi cowboy,

 

It applies to all NFA registered US brokers. IBFX implemented part of the ruling -- the hedge ban in mid May. Quite a few other brokers didn't follow , for instance, FXDD... But now the deadline line is dead set on 31/07, so FXDD will have to disable hedging.

 

I am very interested in what would be IBFX's solution on FIFO so we as traders still have full control about our open positions.

[Starting]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

Guys on forexfactory forum are discussing this issue.

 

Their interim workaround to this rule is

1) open positions with different lots (0.1 then 0.11 or 0.09 then 0.1), or

2) if you opened two positions 0.1 and 0.1, then close 0.01 from first one and you'll be able to work with your second position.

 

Anyway, it's only for NFA regulated brokers.

[⭐ cowboy]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

I'm sure that other brokers will start it sooner or later... also. :(

[copycat]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

Guys on forexfactory forum are discussing this issue.

 

Their interim workaround to this rule is

1) open positions with different lots (0.1 then 0.11 or 0.09 then 0.1), or

2) if you opened two positions 0.1 and 0.1, then close 0.01 from first one and you'll be able to work with your second position.

 

Anyway, it's only for NFA regulated brokers.

 

 

Quite a clumsy workaround, but I guess it is probably the only way out. ;))

[William1713006271]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

This FIFO is serious problem.

 

All NFA regulated brokers, such as FXCM US, won't allow Stop Loss and Take Profit.

 

I heard that fxcm is currently suggesting it's clients to move to FXCM UK which is not NFA regulated and still have the SL & TP ability.

 

I'm worried about Oanda, so I contacted them, and they said it's not a problem. This makes me thing that Oanda might be collecting orders before hand, but well, they are famous for being trustworthy though, so I can't really complaint.

 

Here's the reply from Oanda.

 

regards,

 

Ticket Number: HD2192237

Short Description: NFA Fifo rule?

 

Hello,

 

Thank you for your interest in FXTrade.

 

 

We don't anticipate any change to your ability in how you trade with OANDA on FXTrade. Should this ever change, then we will certainly inform you in a timely manner.

 

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you require further information.

 

Kind Regards,

 

OANDA FXTrade Team

http://fxtrade.oanda.com/

[adrian1974]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

This FIFO is serious problem.

All NFA regulated brokers, such as FXCM US, won't allow Stop Loss and Take Profit.

 

William, could you explain more detail about statement above: Stop Loss and Take Profit is not allowed. Is that mean we can not put Stop Loss?

 

Thanks

[kamkikorich]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

This email i get from FXCM.....

 

Dear Client:

 

A major new National Futures Association (NFA) rule goes into effect on August 1, 2009. This rule affects all U.S. regulated Forex Dealer Members. Forex traders will no longer have the ability to place stop-loss or limit orders. Nor will traders be able to modify or close trades from the “Open Positions” window. As these features will be removed, all stop-loss and limit orders held on FXCM LLC accounts at the close of trading on July 31, 2009, will be deleted.

 

FXCM has always encouraged active risk management through the use of stop-loss and limit orders. Stops and limits are two entry orders that are linked to an individual open position. If a stop or limit order is triggered then the other is canceled. FXCM has introduced a new feature called OCO (One Cancels the Other) entry orders, which will provide traders with the same functionality as stop and limit orders except they are not linked to any position.

[William1713006271]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

William, could you explain more detail about statement above: Stop Loss and Take Profit is not allowed. Is that mean we can not put Stop Loss?

 

Thanks

If you pay attention to your broker the ticket numbers, SL & TP are considered new order that will then be merged to un-hedge the open order. It seems that is the common condition on most brokers. Thus SL & TP are new order, while the FIFO require us to close the open order not making new orders. Thus, SL & TP are not allowed.

 

The FXCM OCO is a good replacement though, coz NFA doesn't allow any hedge, thus any new order that is counter the old order will make the old order become liquidated. Although I think there is still hole in these rules.

 

Well, like those in other forum said, NFA is sure consist of a bunch of stupid people who don't understand trading at all.

 

Regards,

[adrian1974]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

I have contacted IBFx and they explained that FXCM statement was not quite right about FIFO mentioned by NFA.

In IBFX, we still can use SL and TP for a position with different lot size. If you add another position with the same lot size as the previous, you can not close the position. To close the second position you have to closed the first one.

For example:

 

00:00 BUY STOP 1 mini at 1.4000 with SL: 1.3960 and TP: 1.4100; We can set SL and TP for the first order

00:05 BUY STOP hit at 1.4000; So you have now open position with SL: 1.3960 and TP: 1.4100

00:10 BUY STOP 1 mini at 1.4050; At this moment you can not place SL and TP because you still have open position with the same lot size (1 mini)

00:15 BUY STOP 1.1 mini at 1.4050 with SL: 1.4010 and TP 4100; At this moment you can place SL and TP because different lot size from the open position.

 

So my conclusion is: as long as we keep multiple order with different lotsize, we still can set SL and TP and manage them individually.

Or if we only trade 1 lot in a time, there would be no problem with the FIFO rule.

 

Yet I don't know why FXCM make statement like that.

 

Hope this can help to explain about FIFO rule.

[eusanka]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

Hi, Fello Trader,

I reaceived e-mail from IBFX about FIFO rule. I don't know only IBFX or other brokers also. Before, Traders can't do headge, now FIFO... :berbusa: Trying to make trader harder. :((

Good luck with future trade.

 

To our valued clients,

 

As you may know, the National Futures Association (NFA), has implemented new First-in, First-out (FIFO) requirements that will be in effect as of July 31, 2009. We at Interbank FX have been working hard on a solution and are confident that our traders will be able to use our MetaTrader 4 platform with little or no interruption. They will also continue to be able to use their MT4 expert advisors.

 

The NFA is striving to ensure the highest levels of integrity from all market participants and their intermediaries. We want to assure you that Interbank FX strives to be 100% compliant with the NFA.

 

We are currently working on some informational and instructional videos regarding the FIFO requirements and our solution, however most of you will be able to continue trading without any impact to your platform or strategies. In our effort to provide the best solution for your trading, you will be fully advised prior to any proposed changes.

 

We thank you for your continued support and wish you the best of luck with your trading.

 

Best regards,

 

IBFX

 

Hi cowboy,

 

It applies to all NFA registered US brokers. IBFX implemented part of the ruling -- the hedge ban in mid May. Quite a few other brokers didn't follow , for instance, FXDD... But now the deadline line is dead set on 31/07, so FXDD will have to disable hedging.

 

I am very interested in what would be IBFX's solution on FIFO so we as traders still have full control about our open positions.

 

FXDD is not regulated under NFA yet. They have applied but haven't been approved yet. I think its just a matter of time and when it happens, hedging will not be allowed plus the FIFO rule.

[⭐ cowboy]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

We have to see what's going to happen after this month. :-?

[William1713006271]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

This is a great chance though.

 

This is a chance for us to look behind the sales website of the brokers. We are now able to guess how certain broker works. We could guess whether our broker is really transfering the orders to the interbank market or polling it 1st.

 

FXCM said that it doesn't allow us to put SL and TP one by one. But it allows us to put OCO (which is SL & TP altoghther) don't you think it's kindda strange that one by one is not allowed but together is allowed? Afterall, without hedging a new order would close the open position. Is this the clue that FXCM is polling the orders?

 

Well, fxcm is said to be bad already since kathy and boris left. So, how about other brokers?

 

Regards,

[copycat]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

Well, fxcm is said to be bad already since kathy and boris left. So, how about other brokers?

 

Regards,

 

Oh! I didn't know Kathy and Boris has left the FXCM.. When did that happen, and where did they go to ?? :-?

[William1713006271]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

Kathy and boris moved to gft forex if i'm not mistaken.

[raikon]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

I'm going to move my Alpari US to Alpari UK now... this new rules is terrible.

[matias]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

I'm going to move my Alpari US to Alpari UK now... this new rules is terrible.

 

 

I want just move away from alpari, not satisfied with them, tadawul seems to be better alternative.

[LiukK]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

I'm going to move my Alpari US to Alpari UK now... this new rules is terrible.

 

I asked Alpari UK and they said they don't have in program for next future to adopt the same nfa rules.. but.. if everybody goes away from nfa brokers, are you sure they don't force somehow other non-nfa brokers to adjust to their rules? :?:

I really hope no..

 

ps. excuse my bad english

[LiukK]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

here below the mail FXDD sent me:

 

By now you are probably well aware that NFA has made a new rule that prohibits US Forex Dealer Members from carrying customer accounts with opposing positions in the same account past the end of the trading day ("no -hedging"). The rule also requires all positions to be closed in historical order, otherwise known as 'first in first out' (FIFO). There has been wide speculation among user groups what these changes may bring, how they are going to affect the Metatrader platform, how automated trading scripts are going to be affected (Expert Advisors) and what retail trading is going to look like in the future.

 

The 'No-Hedging' rule has been in effect for over a month now and as many of you can attest most of the statements of "doom and gloom" have been highly exaggerated. The FIFO rule implementation has been extended once already and there is continuous talks amongst all companies, platform vendors (software companies), and NFA as to what will be permitted and how things should be working out. In the midst of these changes some dealers have decided to use the rule changes as a selling point for their offshore service centers. They try to amplify the uncertainty and to play on the customers' fears. It is unclear if they are well equipped to maintain a properly operating MT4 platform in these jurisdictions. Most of them have very little history of operating one. It is certain though that it would be costly and inconvenient to close everything and move an account to an untested firm.

 

In the wake of all this speculation we at FXDD would like to assure you once again that we will do our best to make sure you can continue trading without having to worry about how things may change for you. We are working with the platform vendors, carefully examining all possible options, and working diligently with NFA on the progress of our membership. Our advice is not to make hasty assumptions based on the loose talk from people who spread rumors. If we are to make any further changes to our platforms we will make sure you are informed well in advance and you are given all possible options to consider. We will also try and keep you updated on a regular basis to let you know what our plans are.

 

Thanks as always for being a FXDD customer.

 

Sincerely,

The FXDD Team

 

 

 

hope this helps.. :)

[mtaufik]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

I guess some changes need to be made to our automated trading system, I just finished the 'Hedging rules' and now... FIFO... oh well....

[pipslovah]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

All these new NFA regulations are doin more damage than good it seems.. Coz imagine the volume of ppl that will be seeking to put money into NON-USA brokers. Doesnt that mean LESS money stays in the USA because of this since many ppl will be moving out their money from their accounts to UK or other offshore brokers. Dont understand these stupid NFA rules. geez :?:

[cheezehead]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

NFA is trying to mold forex into futures/stocks type arena.. not sure how well this will work.. i think a lot of brokers in USA will shut down and a lot of customers will move over seas..

[gkris6]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

Big Boys on Wall Street are loosing too many clients to Forex. So what to do other than sabotage it.

Make the Forex so unattrective and difficult to trade.

I would not be surprised if some of those Big Boys that lost money pushed this change in rules.

[gpcode]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

I have been forced to remove all trading capital from NFA brokers and establish accounts elsewhere- now these members are uncompetitive with the rest of the world- oh well.

[bph]

Re: FIFO Rule

 

It looks like we have to go that route, ie trade somewhere else outside the US.